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N4: Unresolved rules questions

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Mahtamori, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Making this thread to try and keep track of unanswered questions. I'll try and grade the questions on a three grade scale of urgency As with other threads like these in the past, let's try to keep discussions out of this one. I realise that grading a rules concern can create discussion, and if this very rough scale proves contentious, I'll remove it.

    Please feel free to link to a thread with a rules question if you'd like it added and post there if you want to discuss the question. Just avoid threads that get a satisfactory answer quickly and in the same thread, this is not meant to be an FAQ.

    --
    Rough guide to priority.
    Questions answered by IJW's provisional answers have been moved to the solved section at the bottom.

    In terms of which rules, answers, etc that takes priority, please follow the rough guideline
    1. FAQ are the most official answers.
    2. provisional answers are answers that have been discussed internally but not published yet.
    3. official answers by CB staff will be marked as official answers.
    4. text in the rulebook will in case of a conflict supersede...
    5. examples in the rulebook
    Note that the FAQ may contain errors which may be corrected through provisional or official representatives answering questions, they will let you know if they are correcting an FAQ entry in their answers if this is necessary.

    The latest FAQ is found here: https://downloads.corvusbelli.com/infinity/faq/n4-faq-en-v1-1-1.pdf
    The latest provisional answers can be found here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/forums/solved-rule-questions.149/
    The latest official answers by CB staff can be found on this forum and you can find them linked in this thread.
    The rulebook is found here: https://downloads.corvusbelli.com/infinity/rules/infinity-rules-en.pdf
    The fireteam rules are found here: https://assets.infinitythegame.net/downloads/annexn4/en/v1.1/annexn4.pdf
    The sectorial fireteam lists are found here: https://assets.infinitythegame.net/downloads/secotrialsn4/all/v1.1/secotrialsn4.zip

    :L::L:
    :6:Answered questions can be found here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/n4-questions-answered.39595/
    :L::L:

    And remember that when playing scenarios such as ITS, if there is a rules conflict between a scenario specific rule and other sources, then it is the scenario specific answers and text that takes precedence.

    --
    Urgent.
    Issues that happen very regularly and have important impact on the game such that it is impossible to play without forming a house rule for them.
    --

    Question: Is deployment sequential or simultaneous for all units? Can miniatures be moved around once on the table? Do I roll Metachemistry when a trooper is placed on the table or when I'm ready to "lock" that trooper's position in?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/is-deployment-sequential-or-simultaneous.41198/
    Answer: Unanswered
    V2 update: Still relevant.

    Question: How do we use the new Impetuous Movement criterias?
    It is fairly common for a unit to be unable to accomplish all three criterias and following them in order written can sometimes lead to unintuitive movement. Both positioning the unit as far away from the original position and moving as close to the enemy DZ is surprisingly often not compatible.
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/does-the-impetuous-faq-have-priorities.41737/
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/impetuous-activation-how-does-it-work.41789/
    Answer: Unresolved.
    V2 Update: Still relevant. If you follow the criteria by numbers you end up with a very strange movement pattern!

    Question: With the V2 Rules changes to Minelayer it has become even more unclear when a trooper in Impersonation state is considered/perceived. Can mines be Minelayed next to an Impersonator? Do mines perceive or do they blindly trigger? Can we move through opponent Impersonators, since it is only enemy Impersonators we're not allowed to move into base contact with?
    Answer: Unresolved:
    V2 update: New entry!

    --
    Concerning.
    Issues that happen regularly but have low impact or that happens seldom with fairly important impact on the game.
    --

    Well, it seems Holoecho almost deserves a section all on its own.

    Question: There's a new Important box under Holoecho state that says the Hackable Characteristic is open information if inside opponent's hacking area and in Holoecho state. No such box exists for Holomask. Isn't Holomask the state that is the issue here?
    Answer: Unsolved.
    V2 Update: New entry!

    Question: With Hackable characteristic becoming open information for Holoechos, are Hackable characteristic a trait of, for example, a Lu Duan something the Holoechos share?
    Answer: Unsolved.
    V2 Update: New entry!

    Question: With Hackable characteristic becoming open information for Holoechos, are Hackers that are not of a troop type that has the Hackable characteristic considered to have it?
    Answer: Strictly speaking, being a Hacker does not confer the Hackable characteristic
    V2 Update: New entry!

    Question:
    With the new restriction on Hacking Programs to only work on units in "model form"; is it really intended that Holoecho state can choose to be targetable by both harmful and helpful hacking by combining with Holomask?
    Answer: Strictly speaking, Holoechos are only considered models if combined with Holomask.
    V2 Update: New entry!

    Question: With the new restriction on Hacking Programs to only work on units in "model form"; how, exactly, is this meant to work with a unit in Holoecho state where only one of three representations of the unit is a model?
    Answer: Strictly speaking, the trooper or echo that is represented by the model is targetable by hacking programs.
    V2 Update: New entry!

    Question: How does cover work with large, irregular, buildings?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/what-is-a-scenery-element.38444/
    Answer: Unsolved
    V2 update: Still relevant.

    Question: Does Discover get +6 when in a fully coherent Core Fireteam since Discover gets all the MODs that BS Attacks do?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...bonus-applying-to-discover.41036/#post-431903
    Answer: Unsolved. Discover is likely meant to be a Technical weapon.
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: What is a "valid enemy" for Place Deployable, Drop Bear and Minelayer?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/faq-request-place-deployable.42211/
    Answer: Unresolved in English.
    In Spanish you are allowed to place the equipment if there's a non-camo enemy Trooper in area and throw if there's an enemy miniature in the area.
    V2 update: Still relevant, though Spanish is most likely the correct one to follow.

    Question: During Resolition, what happens first if one player has a successful Dodge and the other uses a skill that is context sensitive;
    Entering camouflage or Dodge movement?
    Place Deployable or Dodge movement? Placing happens at conclusion, dodge movement before that at effects.
    Entering Holoecho or Dodge movement?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...camo-marker-state-all-at-once-question.38357/
    Answer: Unsolved
    V2 update: Still relevant

    --
    Least concern.
    Issues that doesn't occur overly regularly or have low impact on a game.
    --

    Question: Are weapons used for CC Attack in CC mode still BS Weapons for purposes of Fireteam Burst MOD to BS Weapons?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/what-is-the-definition-of-a-bs-weapon.41044/
    Answer: Unresolved, but fairly like they aren't even if they're listed as BS Weapons.
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: Does multiples of skills with the same name stack? E.g. if a unit has two Forward Deployment (+4") such as from Strategic Deployment adding to a unit that already has the skill.
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/rodok-strategic-deployment-ko-dalis-fd4.41009/
    Answer: Unsolved.
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: When squeezing through an alley, what happens to the silhouette part that is technically clipping through the wall?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/moving-round-corners-and-half-width-of-base.38663/
    Answer: Unsolved
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: The exact nature of how a pilot works is still difficult to parse. Can the pilot spend the Tactical Awareness Order without starting in the TAG? Can the pilot spend a Lieutenant Order without starting in the TAG? Can the pilot generate a Lieutenant Order or Tactical Awareness Order without being in the TAG? What about when the TAG is in a Null State but the Pilot is outside? Is the Army in Loss of Lieutenant if the pilot is in Isolated state but the TAG is not?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/tag-pilot-questions.38584/
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/reassigned-lieutenant-problem.38582/
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/can-a-tacaware-be-used-to-dismount-or-to-mount-a-tag.38531
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/can-a-tacaware-be-used-to-dismount-or-to-mount-a-tag.38531
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/anaconda-haris.42081/#post-453710
    Answer: Partial answer.
    FAQ update: The pilot must have Tactical Awareness or NCO to use such an order. The pilot will take the TAG's place in a Fireteam if dismounting the TAG. The TAG will have any panoply gear or objective items picked up by the pilot and vice versa. Operators will also remain in the TAG's fireteam when ejected.
    Pilots do not dominate zones as it is their TAG that does this, operators do dominate zones for the points value of the entire trooper.
    V2 updated!

    Question: Can you shoot a mine (with a template weapon) that's triggering or will the shot fail because the mine is removed "immediately"?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/shooting-bs-attack-in-a-deployed-weapon.39951
    Proposed answer: Yes, because of All At Once meaning the enemy has a functional LOF to the mine at some point during the order. Keep in mind that mines triggering does not remove the mine's Camouflaged state, nor will it protect from the detonation as it is impossible to make it a face to face this way.
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: Does a trooper deploying with Combat Jump or Parachutist block LOF to other active troopers or objects during the order in which they deploy? E.g. Can you block LOF to the real Cadmus using the holoechoes?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...ts-decoy-and-why-are-seed-embryos-25mm.40605/
    Answer: unsolved. Note that "All at once" does not fully answer this!
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: If you dismount and place the pilot in base contact with the TAG or Bike, can the pilot still make a full move? Is there a difference between Pilot and Biker?
    No thread yet.
    Answer: Unresolved.
    V2 update: Still relevant. In addition, the rules for how to place the TAG Pilot on the table seem to have disappeared.

    Question: General Movement Rules say a pilot dismounting from a TAG in Hidden Deployment state cancels all Marker states of both troopers, while Hidden Deployment says the TAG may keep its Marker state if they dismount. Which rule should we follow?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/hidden-dismounting-dilemma.41793/
    Answer: Unresolved
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: Is Berserk's attack "directed" from the start of the movement or from the point where the CC Attack is made at for the purposes of Sixth Sense granting 360 vision?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/from-where-is-berserk-directed-sixth-sense.41728/
    Answer: Unresolved.
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: In a scenario with several active troopers, does a trooper still get -3 MOD to their Dodge from having an enemy inside ZOC but outside LOF if they can see a different active enemy?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/dodging-against-multiple-units.41777/
    Answer: Unresolved.
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: Two FAQ entries for Berserk contradict each other. One says all members with Berserk does the movement, the more recent entry say only the leader ever declares Berserk. Which is correct?
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/fireteam-skill-declaration-and-berserk.41818/#post-447318
    Answer: presumably the newest one is correct, but soon that entry will lose its red text and it'll get hard to tell which is newer.
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: Can you stick a DropBear (Mine Dispenser, etc) to a wall with BS Attack mode? Placement mode can't because of restrictions in Place Deployable, but BS Attack mode aren't linked to restrictions.
    <Please feel free to make a thread for discussion>
    Answer: Unresolved
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: The FAQ has clarified what happens to Escape System TAGs when they go unconscious - can we expand that entry to include Gorgos operator to prevent Total Control from Possessing light infantry?
    <Please feel free to make a thread for discussion>
    Answer: Primarily a request. Gorgos operator should not be possessed, even if they don't have Escape Systems.
    V2 update: Still relevant

    Question: A friendly unit that receives a BS attack from a friend due to being Engaged may benefit from Cover. How do we determine whether they are in no cover, partial cover, or total cover from the attack? How would friendlies being in total cover even work?
    <Please feel free to make a thread for discussion>
    Suggested answer: due to how Partial Cover works, and how the rules does not exclude a friend in Total Cover from being hit due to Engaged, use the intended target and the LOF used to make the shot to determine level of cover.
    V2 update: Still relevant
     
    #1 Mahtamori, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2023
    khepri, Modock, Lesh' and 18 others like this.
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Mahtamori likes this.
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    #3 Mahtamori, Nov 11, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
    Sabin76 and inane.imp like this.
  4. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    This thread should be pinned.
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Reformatted to make it easier to read, now with less bold that wants to grab your attention everywhere. Also added the provisional answers threads to the top of the document.
     
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  6. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Is Peripheral (Control) working as intended? Unconscious trooper can be a spearhead?
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    There are no active question on this topic that I have seen as being unresolved/unanswered. Keep in mind that as an Automatic Skill, Peripheral (Control) will be deactivated when the trooper is Unconscious, so they can not be designated as a Spearhead. Please create a new thread on the topic if you feel this does not answer your question.
     
  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Okay, but considering how limited the scope of that is, I'm not sure if that even qualifies as "least concern", more like a funny quirk
     
  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Don't disagree: we'll see if it keeps coming up / becomes a subject of debate.
     
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  11. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    @Mahtamori it comes up in every game where those powerful units are used. The rule is badly written. It’s like they forgot to write a paragraph or something. There is no excuse. There definitely should be a faq that clarifies what happens when spearhead dies or goes unconscious.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Then I suggest you post a thread on the topic and if there's traction in it I'll add that thread and topic to the list
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Added a blast from the past. During N3 we had a very long running discussion about what skills could be combined in a Coordinated Order until fairly late in N3 it was decided that skills with the BS Attack label or name could be performed as if they were the BS Attack skill.
    With N4, some of the skills involved in that discussion and in the official answer no longer have the BS Attack label and the rules text for how to apply MODs when a profile has for example "BS Attack (+1 DAM)" makes it a bit ambiguous whether it's strictly only when performing the BS Attack Short Skill, a skill with the BS Attack label, or any skill that invokes a BS Attack.
    Check the thread out: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/what-constitutes-a-bs-attack.38579/
     
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  14. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    The whole problem about vagueness around Impetuous have not been resolved either. What "No doubling back" means, what happens when you hit your opponents DZ, and the whole zigzagging to lessen your movement thing.

    This thread should be pinned, it's a great initiative.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! Yes, I've got the impetuous added there in the critical category. Do a search for either "impetuous" or "oscillate", I found someone's description of this moving in place as "oscillating" very funny
     
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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  17. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    I may be wrong, but I think this can be flagged as solved.

    The Army app now specifies (Neurocinetics (+1B))

    I don’t see how you, in good faith, can argue that the +1B would apply to your active turn as well, when the +1B appears as a parentheses inside the parentheses of the Neurocinetics rule.

    I don’t know about you guys but I don’t see how it can be much more clear than that.
    If that really needs an FAQ beyond that, then I fear for the sanity of the FAQ-team.
     
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  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If you wish to discuss it, please do so in the thread. I did create the thread linked specifically because the intent is very clear but the rules work exactly opposite to the obvious intent.
     
  19. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    I actually really don’t want to discuss the subject.
    Just as people report other subjects as being solved, I just report that this is solved via army.
    There’s no longer a debate whether or not this works in active because when the thread was created, the wording was Missile Launcher +1B and THEN (Neurocinetics).

    This is no longer the case, hence why I am flagging it as solved because there’s nothing in the rules that’s suggesting the opposite can be argued anymore.
     
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  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I understand you, but when I made that thread the wordin was "Missile Launcher (Neurocinetics[+1 B])"

    Arguably maybe it doesn't need to be in here, considering most people would be playing it like CB intends, I'm open to that argument even if that wouldn't solve the issue in the thread itself.
     
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