Bringing this one in from the IGL Discord. Situation: a Taigha has dodged into the rear arc of a Ghulam in a Fireteam Core in the previous order. The Taigha's player wants to Berserk the trooper and can easily do so without ever entering the Ghulam's front arc, while the Ghulam's player wants to use the opportunity to get rid of a nasty melee unit and use Sixth Sense to gain 360 LOF and thus place two Light Shotgun templates on the Taigha, hopefully preventing the Taigha from eliminating more Fireteam members. The Ghulam player claims that the Berserk skill in its entirety is an attack and initiated outside LOF which satisfies Sixth Sense. The Taigha player claims that Berserk consists of two discreet elements; movement and CC attack; and these should not be mixed up. Does Sixth Sense allow a unit to declare a BS Attack versus a Berserking unit that never enters the attacked unit's front arc? Key interpretation for: Berserk is an Entire Order skill that is declared with LOF as a requirement and a clear starting point. When that starting point is outside of the target's LOF this would satisfy linguistically that the attack is "directed" from outside LOF and thus trigger Sixth Sense to provide a 360 degrees LOF. Key interpretation against: Berserk says it consists of Move + CC Attack which, while not universally not always so, would make it no different mechanically for where the attack is directed from than declaring Move + CC Attack as individual short skills. A complication in this is that if you over-interpret "directed" as being the same as "declared" you will open up Sixth Sense troopers to shoot at CC units doing less reckless movements, which doesn't seem to be the desired outcome.
Berserker has the Attack label. This would let Sixth Sense to kick in. BUT... An enemy in silhouette contact is not out of LoF per definition.
Yes, that's the main contention. Where is the attack directed from? Equally, would shooting a unit in the same order you move into CC prevent Sixth Sense from kicking in?
When you get attacked with Berserker, the enemy is already in contact. (edit: it can ONLY be declared while in contact) When you get attacked with BS Attack, the enemy is not in contact even if then he reach contact.
You may want to review the skill in question. It is most certainly possible to declare Berserk when the unit is not in base contact.
Interesting. It doesn't say "attacks directed at them from outside their LoF," it says "attacks directed at them by enemies outside their LoF." In this case, because of the All At Once Principle, the Taigha is both inside and outside the Ghulam's LoF, because throughout the order it exists at multiple points, some of which are outside LoF and one of which is inside. If the Taigha is simultaneously an "enemy inside the Ghulam's LoF" and an "enemy outside the Ghulam's LoF" then I would say it meets the requirements for Sixth Sense. Sixth Sense doesn't say "attacks directed at them by enemies not inside their LoF." So, the Taigha is an enemy outside (as well as inside) the Ghulam's LoF, and has directed an attack against the Ghulam, so Sixth Sense lets the Ghulam respond to the attack and gives her a 360 LoF to do so.
Well both variants could be the "right" way but they are mutually exclusive. I guess we have to wait for the next FAQ or someone from Corvus Belli to "choose". On the other hand it should rarely have real implications as it should be quite hard to get into the back ark, berserk and NOT die as a Berserking Model, be it through a Gulam melee attack or some other aroing Trooper.
There's another similar one. 1. Trooper A starts in LOF of Trooper B and moves out of LOF 2. Trooper B, who has Sixth Sense, declares BS Attack 3. Trooper A declares BS Attack 5. Can Trooper B choose to resolve their BS Attack against Trooper A while Trooper A is in their rear arc? Ie. does Trooper A count as being 'an enemy outside of [Trooper B's] LOF' for the purpose of resolution? Because for that order Trooper A is both inside and outside of Trooper B's LOF, and they are considered to be attacking from ALL positions they occupied (ie including those out of LOF).
My take is that by looking at the order expenditures sequence the Taigha prompts Sixth Sense upon the declaration of the Berserk skill at step 1.2 immediately upon declaring the entire order skill. At step 2, [model B], who has sixth sense now exists in two states. State one: they were the target of an attack from outside LOF; state two: they are engaged in close combat. From the pink box immediately after the order expenditure sequence on p21: all details and choices related to the execution of an ... Entire Order or ARO must be specified when it is declared Sixth Sense Requirements are The user is the target of an Attack. First bullet of Sixth Sense allows the user to respond to Attacks directed at them by enemies outside their LoF. (1)For the purposes of drawing Line of Fire to the attackers, the user has a 360 LOF arc, and (2) if they are in Engaged State, they can draw LoF to attackers outside their Close Combat. By being the target of an attack from behind, Model B's sixth sense is activated at the time the attack skill is declared. He gains 360 LOF arc only to see the attacking model - the Taigha - immediately upon being declared the target of Berserk (an attack). At step 2 Model B is able to declare BS attack against the Taigha because Model B gained LOF to the Taigha during step 1.2 and for all of step 1.2 which includes the MOV of the Taigha. If the Taigha had activated within 6" of and behind Model B and declared MOV during step 1.2 ending in the engaged state, Sixth Sense would not activate. Model B has not been the target of an attack at step 2 when they get to declare ARO's. Now they only exist in the second state (from above), where they gained LOF by being in the engaged state. This means they can't respond with BS Attack.
Spoiler I assume that you mean that at your Step 1, LOF is mutual or at least Trooper B has LOF to Trooper A; and that Trooper A left LOF without entering TOTAL COVER (and thus would be targetable by a model with 360 LOF) The Important box after the Order Expenditure Sequence (OES) on P21 states that you must specify all details and choices related to the execution of a Short Skill, Short Movement Skill, Entire Order Skill or ARO when it is declared. As such in your example when we arrive at OES step 2, Trooper B has been granted an ARO by having a model, Trooper A, activate in their LOF. They must declare their ARO now including specifying the choice of where to shoot the activating model during it's move path. At OES step 2, Sixth Sense hasn't been activated by Trooper A as they didn't declare an attack from outside LOF
Currently, troopers can declare prospective Skills and the Requirements aren't checked until Resolution. So B can certainly declare a BS Attack and choose a target position in his back arc. If A doesn't then declare an attack, then B's skill will fail. The question is whether, if A does declare an attack as his second short skill, would Sixth Sense then make B's BS Attack valid when its validity is checked at Resolution.
Considering that ...contentious ruling I believe you're correct regarding executing the mov+attack as two short skills and I'm wrong in my response to inane.imp. I don't think you're disputing my take on the use of the entire order Berserk though, correct?
We reach the same conclusion on Berserk, although for slightly different reasons I think. Your reasoning is that the attack comes from outside the Ghulam's LoF, so Sixth Sense is triggered. My reasoning is that the attack doesn't have to come from a specific spot to trigger SS - rather, the attack has to come from an enemy and the enemy has to be outside LoF. If I'm right, then we don't need to worry about where the attack "comes from" in Berserk.
