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Shasvastii oddities: can a cadmus hide behind its decoy, and why are seed-embryos 25mm?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hexa, Nov 19, 2021.

  1. Hexa

    Hexa TAG pilot

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    When a cadmus lands a combat drop, can it use its decoy to block a model's line of sight? Thereby forcing them to ARO the fake one.

    And do the rules specify anywhere what the proper diametre for a seed-embryo token is? Presumably it's 25mm, but Silhouette X just says it's the same as the model's base. So I can't find a rule technically preventing one from making an embryo on some other base size.

    On the subject of seed-embryos, I assume they can go prone to hide whether the S-X camo token is a seed-soldier?
     
  2. Hexa

    Hexa TAG pilot

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    Oh, also, is the equipment of a seed-embryo's developed form public information? I assume it probably is?
     
  3. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Yes, it is possible.

    Given that the model is on a 25mm, you assume right that the Seed Embryo is 25mm. You can also find the relevant marker here: https://downloads.corvusbelli.com/infinity/tokens/tokens.pdf
    upload_2021-11-19_9-0-44.png


    Yes, they can go Prone. The Seed Embryo is a Trooper.

    As long as it is in Camouflaged state, it is still Private Info. Cadmus or discovered Seed Embryo must disclose their Open Info.
     
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    How? It's not there at the beginning of the order, therefore it can be seen through.
     
  5. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    LoF is obstructed by Models. Decoys are treated as Models as stated exception (a Marker normally does not).

    Moving models do not obstruct LoF along their course (see LoF rules). Combat Jump is not a movement skill.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Models obstruct LOF, yes, but that's not the iffy part of the ruling. The iffy part is how it would circumvent All At Once.
     
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  7. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    If your opponent declare a Coordinated Combat Jump placing the models in the same way, do you claim to be able to shot to the "second line"?
     
  8. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who has a memory of the original discussions about “I declare a combined order with these troopers, and want these two models to move -after- those others, so that line of sight is blocked” should. Yes.

    Because the entire idea of trying to use troopers in the same order to block line of fire to other troopers in the same order is flawed.
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Of course. Why wouldn't that work the same way all other rules in the game works when it's not explicit it works otherwise?
     
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  10. Hexa

    Hexa TAG pilot

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    The only reason for doubt is that they're not moving there, instead appearing using a completely different skill.
     
  11. Hexa

    Hexa TAG pilot

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    Ok, it sounds like there's no explicit ruling confirming the obvious common sense interpretation.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The rules for Seed-Embryo has to be read with a bit of goodwill or the troopers with this rule become unplayable (I mean, if you are too literal it is impossible to hatch a seed-embryo token)

    Edit: It's a bit more complicated than this. I'll make note of it in a new post a bit further down.
     
    #12 Mahtamori, Nov 19, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
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  13. Hexa

    Hexa TAG pilot

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    Since you can't typically spend orders on tokens...?
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Tokens are game elements that represent deployable equipment and weapons :)
     
  15. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    You are forgetting a bit.
    Combat Jumping models DO NOT declare a Move.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I'm not sure I buy it considering my trooper will be able to Draw LOF to objects on the other side of those troopers during that order.
     
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  17. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Your trooper WOULD be able to Draw LOF to objects on the other side of those troopers during that order IF they delared a Movement skill, which they didn't...
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No no, they can absolutely draw LOF to objects on the other side since there was a point during the order in which they had LOF to those objects, should there exist an ARO able to use such a LOF such as BS Attack with Smoke Grenades

    And as a small addendum, the rule that has a trooper not block LOF does not specify Movement Label as it is written "Troopers do not obstruct LoF all along their route." the part of the LOF rules which demands a skill with the movement label is the one that grants the trooper 360 vision.
    Whether deployment of a trooper is a movement or not is... well... both implied and not.
     
    #18 Mahtamori, Nov 19, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
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  19. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Hmm. I'm leaning towards they don't block LoF, because the order expenditure sequence says that you first declare which trooper you're activating, then spend the order, then declare the first skill. The All At Once principle says that "orders and AROs are simultaneous," and if the "order" includes activation and order spending, then there's a point during the order when the AD troopers weren't yet on the table and didn't block LoF.

    The alternate argument is that the AD troopers are on the table throughout the order, because the act of declaring the order places them there. Also possible, but I think less likely given the OES activate-spend-declare sequence.

    Probably does belong on the ever-growing unanswered questions list, though :-(
     
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  20. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    That's some wild stretching of "All at Once" going on here, which gets used way too liberally way too often for how little it actually says in the rules.
     
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