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PanOceania in N4

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    To those that are not up to date N4 is coming and is scheduled for Summer of 2020.

    This tread is created to discuss PanOceania and its sectorials in the upcoming edition, Suggestions, ideas, wishlist's, opinions, things that work, things that do not work all are welcome if done in a polite manner.

    Now the most basic rule of the thread, be polite this is not a thread to be dissolved in arguing who has the correct ideas and who has not, all ideas are welcome and all comments and criticism is appreciated, as long as the tone is polite.

    For a more generic discussion of the upcoming N4 please use this thread

    Thanks.

    Edit

    Legacy thread can be found here.
     
    #1 psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  2. Werekill

    Werekill Well-Known Member

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    Do you mind if we just sticky the other thread from in here and edit the content of the OP, rather than changing the OP owner as suggested in the Human Sphere sub?

    The other thread has multiple ongoing discussions, and it's a bit awkward to jump from there to here.
     
  3. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    Give Teutons eclipse smoke 2 electric boogaloo.
     
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  4. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Unfortunately no, but I can have a link to the legacy thread here if this helps
     
  5. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    How about N4 restores the MSV3's ability to ignore camo markers and being able to shoot them immediately. ;)

    #MaketheAquilaGuardgreatagain.
     
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  6. gregmurdock

    gregmurdock Extremely Beloved Member

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    that's a significantly better idea than this new thread
     
  7. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    Probably low on everybody's wish list but I'd like Bipandra revised again. She's pretty good but not good enough to compete effectively for spots in NCA lists. I still take her lots but that's cause I want to take her.

    Uhlan should be cheaper or have some additional trick to make it more appealing. When I do run TAGs in NCA, I always end up defaulting to HGL or Lt Squalos. Just having an lt profile might be enough.

    Now that bolts have long lost unique access to drop bears, their defining trait, can we have the only portable mine/dropbear launcher in the game plx? Uses existing dropbear ammo but changes range bands as an additional optional thing. Maybe can also launch in camo mode (force of fire drives it into the ground) but that maybe OP.

    Slight cost reductions and more airborne units in general please.
     
  8. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

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    To add on to this, Konstantinos, Rao, and Singh.
    Give infiltrating Koni regular Camo, give Rao Lt. lvl 2 or at least NCO, change the ruling of Singh's CoC to allow it to work intuitively in a game scenario and maybe boost his CC just slightly, so he's a threat. That, or at least give him Superior Combat Jump. We're talking about the guy that WROTE the book on how to combat jump!
     
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  9. SpectralOwl

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    All I can think of relevant to my NCA is:
    Linkable (or Albedo) Black Friar Sniper; he needs some help given he lacks Albedo.
    Price Fixes; Lynx vs. Hexa makes me sad.
    More Auxbots; Auxilia feel less like the epitome of technified warfare than Chain Smoker Warbands at the moment. Let em' do a bit more. Have some fun.
    More Accessible Box Arrangement; the NCA Starter isn't very good (Combi Bolts aren't often taken in large numbers, Hexa Spitfire is serviceable but not commonly used) and the only source of Combi Fusiliers is the PanO starter box with 2 models NCA can't use. Several other useful pieces are also buied in expensive boxes with non-NCA pieces, like the MSV Spitfire Deva or Uhlan, impacting the ability of players to actually collect the Sectorial.
    MSV3; I suspect this is still priced like it was back when it let you shoot Camo tokens. I would like to shoot Camo tokens, or at least get a discount.
    ORCs; Need just a little "something" to make them work. Throw on any half-decent equipment or skill and they're right where I'd want them.

    On the sillier side:
    NCA Trauma Doc and Support Remotes; just do what was done with the NCA Machinist. I want to see people who invested in Jammers and E/M crying when they see NCA.
     
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  10. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

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    Honestly, NCA Orcs could just be given Veteran lvl 1 and it would be pretty great!
     
  11. Berithh

    Berithh New Member

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    I would like to copy and paste something which I wrote in the now locked thread, because I personally think it's worth discussing.

    To add to my original post; though I hate to use Military Orders again as an example of this disparity, I'd like to point out that the Crusader Brethren with Spitfire is 1.5 SWC within it's given sectoral, but costs 2 SWC in Vanilla. This puts it in direct competition with the Akalis Spitfire, who only costs 1.5 SWC within Vanilla. Comparing their stats, the Crusader Brethren has +1 ARM, +3 BTS, while only having a knife, rather than the Akalis' E/M CCW. I understand that stats have a bearing on SWC, hence why the Fusilier HMG is 1 SWC, whereas the Swiss or Aquila HMG is 2, but surely if the Crusader Brethren is 1.5 SWC in MO, than it would be worth 1.5 SWC in Vanilla.

    I know things require a level of balance , and I don't proclaim to be a wealth of knowledge, having only started playing Infinity in January 2019. That said, I personally am passionate about this, where I play the majority of my games as Vanilla. Barring a scenario where I'm going to a game where I know there will be Zero-G terrain, why would I bring the Crusader Brethren Spitfire over the Akali Spitfire? Why would I ever select the TOOSFO over the Croc FO? It only costs 5 points more and saves me 1 SWC. Though I haven't gone into detail on it, above, the same can be said for the Order Sergeant TO MSR vs Croc MSR. It costs 0.5 SWC more in Vanilla, but loses the antipersonnel mines.
     
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  12. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    SWC costs are also a matter of lore transcription. While, in Vanilla, requesting for a Knight isn't hard, requesting for OS Specialists is something else because MO need them for their own operations. Plus Croc Men are our historical infiltrators. If you want to take the light troopers carrying heavy weapons or infiltrations, get prepared to pay the SWC cost. For the same reason, De Fersen doesn't pay 2.5 SWC while having an AHD and a Spitfire and Santiagos with Spitfire cost so few SWC.
     
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  13. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

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    I'll stick to PanO wish-listing TBH, the changes or modifications to rules I'd like to see are N4 general.
    • CQB TAG, armed with a Heavy Shotgun, Eclipse light grenade launcher and limited Camo (I wanted limited TO, but camo is fine), on a S6 chassis (maybe give it Full Auto 1 if you're feeling generous).
    • Drone Swarm TAG, with limited weapon loadout (maybe a missile launcher for ARO but getting close makes it sweat) but a pair of ass-kicking Auxbots with some big gun options (Pulzar, Heavy Flamethrower, twin Light Shotgun, Jammer etc.).
    • Crazy Koalas for the Aussies of PanO!
    • Another Aleph re-creation, so Joan has some in-faction competition (surprise me with what you can think of).
    • VIRD are the only sectorial with a single Auxbot platform, give us another (maybe an Orc!).
    • Tech Bee... should have been the irregular, climbing+ engineer that the Monstrucker ended up being. Not a 5 point regular order for Joan.
    • Stratego 1, Lieutenant L2, Advanced command; pick one and give it to an Aquila profile.
    • Guarda de Assaulto, needs a specialist profile please, both other "Guard" regiments now have one.
    • All Ghost: Remote Presence TAGs get Tactical Awareness.
    • Singh needs to lose CoC and gain Superior Combat Jump.
    • Rao is a great profile to be either Lieutenant or NCO.
    • Can we get some more Auxila profiles please, e.g. hacker with SMG and an E/Marat bot, "sniper" profile with a combi and a Feuerbach bot.
    • Bipandra still seems over-costed for what she's bringing, NCO at no extra cost and we'll call it a day (or Tactical Awareness to represent her "heal Angus" action every turn).
     
  14. SpectralOwl

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    Reminds me, I would like more Australians. It always struck me as odd that the culture one of the founding nations of PanO is almost completely absent from its unit fluff; being referenced only in Bolts. New Zealand has it even worse with only arguably the Croc Men's tattooes having a Maori origin. So yeah, add "Space ANZACs" to the wishlist.
     
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  15. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Well-Known Member

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    Has Malaysia had any repping in PanO's units?
     
  16. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    • TAGS need a complete rework. PanO is the TAG faction and "nobody" uses it.
    • More oceanian fluff in units!
    • More Auxbots profiles.
    • Smoke! Normal or Eclipse.
    • Revised cost points or equipment in "vanilla" units like Orc, Hexa, Akalis etc.
    • Revised SWC. No more sectorial units with a SWC tax in Generic.
    • Konstantinos, Kirpal, Bipandra and Rao need a rework.
    • More engineers!
    • Changes in Aquila or MVS3.
     
    #16 Dyne, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  17. M.J.

    M.J. New Member

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    • Ability for G: Remote Presence TAGs to go prone/crouch to lower the silhouette: S7 to S4, S6 to S3
    • MSV3 to shot camo without discovering them
    • Some kind of light TAG for Varuna
    • Some kind of Guard for Varuna
    • Some updates for Guarde de Assaulto, he is assault HI after all so 5 armor or 6-2move, profile with heavy shotgun
    • More weapons for Auxbots
    • More profiles for current units which could use Auxbots
    • Hacking buffs for G: Remote Presence TAGs, maybe HI
     
  18. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    A kiwi/aussie unit which isn't as culturally confused as a unit of Maori named after an Australian animal, which leaves us feeling like CB didn't even try.

    Units could reference anzacs, diggers, even hobbits would feel more appropriate than Croc Men.
     
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  19. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Zulu Cobra is also a reference to Australia.
    I wish also that there would be more Oceanic and Indian references than what we have now. And SWF won't help it so we will have to wait for EBA to bring more of this flavour.

    I think that Tikbalang is pretty much all there is but as it is also the most popular TAG of the faction, they are rather well served. But I agree with you that there is a lack of presence of the cultures living in Indonesia.

    To second all this, ask to Giraldez to paint more Indian and Indonesian skins rather than caucasian ones. It always bugs me to see PanO as the white occidentals while India and Indonesia stomps Australia and New Zealand in population so much. That would enforce the Oceanic vibe PanO should have. You can keep Patsy, Rao, Joan and De Fersen as caucasian but most of our regular troopers would be much more fitting the lore if there was less white people in them.

    As to PanO in the Army:
    • More Combi+something or MULTI Rifle+something. We are the high-tech faction with miniaturisation on everything. How can the KotHS have Combi rifle, LGL and not Combi rifle+LGL? Even Yu Jing has more units with this kind of feature and has the luxury to give some to Shaolin. I understood that Combi+LSG is a PanO thing and I'm pretty good with that but where is our lost Combi+LRL? Give us more of those, there are places like Teutons, OS and ORCs can use those to lose those critics saying they are bland. We are the shooting guys, give us more shooting weapons on the units we have.
    • More planetary specific training in vanilla units. What was done with Varuna ORCs and Machinists was a good thing. No need to give so much to ASA and NCA ORCs but just one skill like Jungle Terrain for ASA would give them more identity and fitting with the mood of the sectorial.
    • Don't be shy with Auxbots. There are a lot of things to do with them. PanO opponents don't swear enough about them.
    • Increase the fire rate of the Uhlan's Feuerbach, even if it makes him costier. At the moment, it doesn't have the antitank power it should have. It's a great TAG in its concept and in most of its execution but the antitank part really need a little help in order to make it really better than the Squalo in TAG fights.
    • Do something for the Montesa Tikbalang's cost. The sectorial has really hard time to put it in a correct list compared to the Seraph. Make it available to Vanilla but share its AVA with regular Tikbalang.
    • Seraph Lt profiles (don't mind if this is MO only).
    • Give Guarda de Assalto something in survivability and/or in speed. Just +3 BTS and Multiterrain should be enougth. Maybe improve the BS of his Auxbot too.
    • I miss the your dare you had when creating the Guarda de Assalto. I think this unit embodies somehow what we love in PanO even if the unit isn't played that much (mostly because the smoke part is really unreliable).
    • Bring the Nimbus grenades back to FO FK. MO needs them.
    • OS MSV2 and Hacker linkable.
    • Give OS a skill that is showing they aren't Fusiliers with barely better CC training and a fanatic mind only.
     
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  20. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    For MO:

    I honestly think MO should just be reworked again. The old system of having one main order of knights and a couple of side orders could be great if each order of knights was actually interesting. Sectorials with unusual takes on AVA or fireteams are harder to balance I'm sure, but there was so much missed potential with that concept.

    Acon:

    I really like Acon post-rework but I think just a couple changes could fix the underplayed unit problem. Kirpal needs to lose CoC and Rao can have it. This is an artifact from N2 that hopefully can finally be fixed 2 editions later. The next is the Montesa. I like the bike but I find its performance is limited to winning harder when I'm ahead. I'd love for it to have a spitfire or red fury so that Acon can have a strong solo piece to run around with besides the Bagh-Mari HMG. I would trade Teucer for a unit with smoke, even on a somewhat unreliable unit like an Akalis.