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Forming Fireteams: a Summary

Discussion in 'Rules' started by ijw, Mar 26, 2018.

  1. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    that was the exact same case of having a fixed composition. once you have a legit special duo with scarface and cordelia, there is no room for valerya to join in. some thought it was impossible. others thought valerya could replace any of those. you think it is impossible for a rudra to join the 2 yadu + 1 asura haris. well, it is not impossible. the solved rules shows that those who thought it was not impossible for valerya to join a fixed composition duo (by replacing any member, not by extending to a larger fireteam) were right.
     
  2. pedrogzc

    pedrogzc Well-Known Member
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    All right, then let's hope CB rewrite the rule or put it in the faqs, cause currently as written, it isn't possible.

    Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk
     
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  3. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Yes. But the only 'requirement' for a Rudras to be in the Fireteam is that it's a Yadu Fireteam.

    Not being a Wildcard is irrelevant. The same 'can join/be part of' wording is used for both, the difference is that the Rudras Gunbot is limited to Yadu Fireteams instead of any Fireteam.

    This is one of the reasons why the 'can join' wording has caused problems - the only way to 'join' a Fireteam is to drop out of it and re-enter by being in ZoC of the Team Leader at the start of your turn. When you 'add' a trooper to an existing Fireteam by using a Command Token, you cancel the old Fireteam and create a completely new Fireteam.

    IT IS CORRECT. The post was checked by Gutier before I published the thread. So yes, it is correct that all 'can join/can be part of' units effectively 'replace' a trooper in a Fireteam. That is, literally, the only way they can work.

    The wording in the clarification has been backed up directly by CB staff in the thread that was linked to, and has been backed up again in the Military Orders Crusade Fireteam - which has a fixed composition of Joan + 4 Knights Hospitaller, with an example of a Knight of Santiago replacing one of the four Hospitallers.
     
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  4. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Is there any possibility to include that in the main post?
    I’ve been trying to help some players in the spanish forum to figure the fireteam rules out. This post was ruled out for not being official enough and explaining them without the clarifications of this post is possible but much harder.
     
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  5. pedrogzc

    pedrogzc Well-Known Member
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    Thanks!

    I think you are in the faq team, don't you?
    I hope these clarifications will be included in the next FAQs. Isn't quite serious to have to invoque a forum post to clarify a rule.

    In Spanish wording, shouldn't be allowed.

    Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Could you summarise which bit of the Spanish wording doesn't allow it? As far as I'm aware, the Spanish text is more consistent than the English, and translates more closely to 'can be part of' than 'can join'.
     
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  7. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I’m impressed with how polite and open minded you have suddenly become!
    You’re welcome, by the way
     
  8. pedrogzc

    pedrogzc Well-Known Member
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    @Ogid action-reaction.

    Actually, I'm very polite.

    Sorry if you felt offended.

    Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk
     
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  9. pedrogzc

    pedrogzc Well-Known Member
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    Because in Spanish, you can't assume that "can join" could be treated as "replace" that it's what ultimately seems to be the right thing.

    Anyway. Please, CB, @hellois, clarify this in the next faqs.

    Thank you very much.

    Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk
     
  10. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Ok, that was unexpected!
    You played a bit hard to my taste, but to be fair I had some fun practicing my rules-fu and I’m glad you get it now.
    So apologies accepted mate, no hard feelings :)
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    In that case it's the same as in English.

    It must be 'replace' because even in a standard Fireteam, a Wildcard or equivalent must replace someone - they aren't included in the units that can be in the Fireteam. For example in Varuna a Fireteam: Core of Fusiliers is made up of 2-5 Fusiliers. Not '1-5 Fusiliers + Wildcards', just Fusiliers.
     
  12. Gero

    Gero Well-Known Member

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    Since this is the proper Thread for asking questions about Fireteams I won't open a new thread for my question.

    While playing ISS I field in Group 1 1 Crane Agent with 4 Celestial Guards, one of the CG(celestial Guard) is the KSCD(Kuang Shi Control Device), 4 Kuang Shis and Father Lucien Sforza (Posing as a CG KSCD).

    While Deploying, I see that I would like the Kuang Shis in a completely different place than the fireteam core, and would like to cancel their impetuousness through FT:Core, under the sectorial list and the army the CGKSCD can form a fireteam Core with up to 4 Kuang shis.

    So I deploy Sforza Posing as the CGKSCD in coherency with the Kuang Shi, would it be possible for me to form the Special Fireteam CGKSCD + Kuang Shis with sforza using Holoprojector 1 to imitate the CGKSCD?
     
  13. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    No, Sforza cannot be part of that fireteam nor he is a wildcard, so he cannot be part of that core.
    Holo 1 let you trick your adversary but the Fireteam rules can see through it :P
     
    ijw likes this.
  14. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    I need a bit of support to settle something.
    In the Fireteam:Duo requirements we have this:
    I have one player defending that the bolded line means that generic armies may use special duos from the sectorial charts (like a Patroclo + Achilles duo in Vanilla Aleph); for me it's clear that's not the intent but i'm going to need some support to back it up.
     
  15. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Generic armies (apart from Tohaa) do not have a Sectorial Army List.
     
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  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Oh right. He's arguing "their" refers to the unit and not to the player's faction?
    That one is harder to settle.
     
  17. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Yes, please, include all this stuff in the future FAQs, or if possible, in the Wiki Fireteam Rules and/or List of Fireteam. But thanks to at least have this thema in the forum "Fireteam Focused". It isn't so hard to find, but not every player comes to the forum and "chat". Thanks for the effort.

    Best regards
     
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  18. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I politely suggest looking at the Wiki Fireteam rules and List of Fireteams. ;-)
     
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  19. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    I agree that needs to be clearer, however right now the rules in the wiki are almost complete; with some minor exceptions that are clarified here, all the info about how the Fireteam works is there. But there is a "little" problem:

    The key example that clarifies how the "can join" mechanic works (the whole "Wilcard" or "can join X type of fireteam") is this one:
    That is a very hard to find example lost in the middle of the looooooong List of Fireteam page, so not many players will find it unless it is pointed. So what is missing in the wiki is:
    • That example in a more visible place, and maybe one or two more examples won't hurt.
    • The clarification about if a X fireteam needs an X rules wise.
    • A line in the wiki that say that "can join" and "can be part of" mean the same (AFAIK this is only stated in this thread)
     
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  20. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Is it legal to replace a fireteam member with the fireteam skill (DUO, Haris etc..) with a wildcard trooper?