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Wildcards (not) replacing all Fireteam core Troopes

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hachiman Taro, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    Just to be thorough, I suppose they could write it as, 'Special Fireteam. A Rui Shi counts as a Zúyŏng for Fireteam composition but only 1 Rui Shi can join a Zúyŏng Invincibles Fireteam.'

    That way the unit itself fulfills the requirement made by naming the Fireteam... But it's just so unbelievable that anyone would approach it that way lol.
     
    Robock likes this.
  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    "Up to one Rui Shi may count as a Zuyong for Fireteam composition."
     
  3. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Just remember that under the actual rule for "count as", if the Rui Shi had the line "count as a Zuyong", the 4 ABH + Rui Shi would be valid.
     
  4. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    How long has this debate been raging on and how long is CB gonna wait until they provide a clear answer? I would say this is quite an important matter
     
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  5. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Months?
     
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  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Nah, OP was 03 Jun so only weeks.
     
  7. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Do you understand that we DO have a clear answer? If you stop reading what is not there, it works fine with no need of further discussion.
    Do we have to explain it again?
     
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  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, we DO NOT have a clear answer.

    The explanation for why the Patsy (Haris) + Kamau HRL + VIRD Machinist is legal was because there was a Kamau in the link, even though that Kamau is not the model with Haris. Replacing that Kamau with a wildcard (say, the Clipper MLbot) makes that no longer true. Patsy and the Clipper can join any fireteam, but the VIRD Machinist can only join Kamau Core or Haris. That is a very important difference!

    There are not many Wildcards with the Haris or Duo rule that could replace things, but they do exist and require clarification. Say, a Shang Ji replacing Krit in the Special Guijia Duo. Shang Ji do have Duo natively, so should be able to replace Krit. But when a Special Duo is calling out specific characters, I'm not sure it's possible.
     
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  9. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    The key of this one is in the last page:
    We have 2 real options here:
    Fireteams are recipes and with the new hiperflexible wilcards you can make things like that Kamau Haris without a Kamau. You build your link with your recipe (Kamau Haris in this case) and as long as you follow all the rules you can do it. This one is the most probable because it will cause less messy interactions and is the one that I think is the correct.

    Second possibility, a X link needs X to be considered that. As the "recipe" and the unit share the name this may cause problems with the use of the wildcards that can only join a particular tipe of fireteams (like the Machinist). This doesn't seem likely but it cannot be ruled out, so a CB word here would definitely help.
     
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  10. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    I actually think the right answer is you CAN have an Asura/Rudra/Lamekh link, but a lot of people don't think the same, so it's pretty obvious the rules need a new redaction at the very least
     
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  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    I honestly wouldn't be happy about a 'Kamau Haris' that doesn't have a single Kamau in it being legal, but if CB says that's what they want it's their game and I will play it that way.
     
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  12. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Right now I'll opt for a flexible stand, as both explanations are possible I wouldn't oposse to a player that would want to make a X Haris/Duo without X.
    But yeah, an official word is needed to settle this.
     
  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Since Haris must have at least one with the Haris skill, the only one that could replace the Kamau with Haris, would be Patsy because she has the skill. But if she did and you take two other wildcard troops, is it really a Kamau Haris anymore? It could even be a an ORC Haris at that point. I'd say Orc just on the basis that that she is an ORC trooper.
     
  14. mittenninja

    mittenninja Mercenary Scum
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    Patsy isn't an Orc though (beyond the fluff), that's the point. She's Patsy, she doesn't count as anything else for fireteam composition.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Ug. Clear as mud! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    So is the question about the Machinist being in the the Haris? Since it's only allowed in any Core or Kamau Haris. I'd still say the below doesn't count as a Kamau Haris. And if you are trying to get away with it you are trying to go against the spirt of the game. There should be at least one Kamau in there.

    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    CLIPPER DRONBOT (Varuna Div.) (Aquatic Terrain) Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
    MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
     
  16. mittenninja

    mittenninja Mercenary Scum
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    It is a Kamau haris though (if the player wants it to be). There is no requirement that a haris must have a specific troop in it (besides the requirement that at least one model must have the Haris skill). Since Patsy is a wildcard and has the Haris skill, she fulfills the requirements.
     
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  17. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    We cannot settle this without CB. Kamau fireteam:Core or Haris could mean:
    • "A Fireteam Core or Haris listed in the Kamau row of the VIRD list of fireteams"
    • "A Fireteam Core or Haris listed in the Kamau row of the VIRD list of fireteams that also have at least 1 Kamau or a trooper that count as one"
    I really think is the first one (so no Kamau needed unless it's a Core), but as the trooper and the "recipe" share the same name, it could be also the second one.
     
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  18. mittenninja

    mittenninja Mercenary Scum
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    A Kamau Core requires a Kamau due to the recent changes to Core team rules. That change has not been made to Haris/Duo teams.
     
  19. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    That's the reason I lean towards the first option, but it's true I expresed myself badly. I was talking about what would be needed to fulfill the machinist requisite (below) not about what is needed to form a Haris or Core of Kamaus.
     
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    To me this a Spirit of the game vs. Word of the game. you can almost never go wrong going with the Spirit of the game.