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Dodge vs Jammer

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Kazavon, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. Kazavon

    Kazavon Uxia McNeil's #1 Fan

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    I'm assuming you can dodge them since they are a BS attack-- and since it's also a Comms Attack, you're allowed to Reset against them as well.

    So if a Mutt runs up within your ZoC through a wall you can declare Reset at no penalty, or if one runs up in LoF you can declare Dodge to get away from the following Jammer or chain rifle shot.

    It also gives you a brain fart safety net as if you declare Change Facing you can also avoid the Jammer shot through the wall, albeit at a -3.

    And then successfully Resetting lets you apply Guts to drop prone and change your facing if you like, or attempt to escape the template if possible.

    Just clarifying this since it seemed weird!
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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  3. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    However Reset does say:
    • If the user wins the Face to Face WIP Roll, he may apply the Guts Roll rules.
    So you can potentially still use Reset to get away from danger.
     
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  4. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    This is very interesting, it's wild how easy it is to miss stuff in the rules.
     
  5. Kazavon

    Kazavon Uxia McNeil's #1 Fan

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    Good thing this is all in the Dodge skill but not in the Comms Attack skill. Love how weirdly nested Infinity rules are... !

    Thank you!
     
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  6. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Key takeaway is - Ghazi Muttawiah edges around a corner within 8" of an enemy model - enemy must choose their ARO before you declare your second short skill. If they dodge - you jam. If they reset - you template them. If they shoot - you do whatever.
     
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  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Rule of Three: Check AT LEAST three entries on the rulebook before considered a rule "consulted" XD
     
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  8. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    What if Reset and Dodge were replaced by one generic skill, called Evade? The effects of which are determined by the type of attack against you instead. So if a Ghazi Moves granting you an ARO, you can declare Evade. if the active model shoots, you follow the rules for dodge, if they jam, you follow reset.

    I don't understand the thematic reason for the way it is handled currently. Are we encouraging the active player being able to make decisions based off a sequence of events during an order where everything is supposed to be simultaneous? While the reactive player cannot? Even if my suggestion was implemented, the active player still gets to decide their second short skill after seeing the ARO. But at least it wouldn't be nearly as punishing at it is now.
     
    #8 Ginrei, Jul 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Thematically they're two completely different actions. Dodge is physically getting out of the way of the Attack and Reset is rebooting your electronics against an Attack that doesn't care about your exact physical location.
     
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  10. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about this in relation to the simultaneous nature of an order. My suggestion thematically covers those two completely different actions because the intent of both actions is the same . Which is to evade an incoming attack. (oh, i guess they're not completely different after all)

    EDIT: I moved the discussion here if interested.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/replacing-dodge-and-reset-with-evade.24153/
     
    #10 Ginrei, Jul 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  11. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Came here, saw this. Then I recalled some conversations with old testers, and how they told me it was like that in the beginning, then out of the blue it was split onto 2...

    Also, you know what works about both a hack/comms attack, and a bullet? another bullet. Then they use the template weapon, but...
     
  12. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Only if your opponent was kind enough to jam you in your LoF.
     
  13. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Wait so we have another super-tech weapon which can hit through solid walls like Jammer can?
     
  14. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Nothing in Guts Rolls triggering effects require Line of Fire.
     
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  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Yyy isnt everything ?
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    No, he's talking about Dodge and Reset being split into two Skills. But that's either a misunderstanding somewhere or it happened very early in the process - and effectively existed all the way back to N1 anyway as you got to resist Hacking with a WIP Roll.
     
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  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    ...yet another reason why Ghazi are insanely broken at 5 points apiece. Those and Symbiomates are the only unpleasant, broken, and always-around parts of Infinity. It would be a much better game if they were nerfed.

    Also, the answer is always to shoot the stupid Ghazi in the face to prevent further damage unless they're at order 9 of that group. And also to let the opposing player know what you think of them always taking 4 bloody Ghazi in every list.

    [/GRUMBLE]
     
    #17 Savnock, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Oh, ok. Thanks for clarification and history lesson ;)
     
  19. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/total-cover-guts-roll.23261/

    @ijw as I saw you observing this discussion :) does it mean we can treat enemy ZoC as "danger zone" or you assume ghazi was visible to attacked unit and attacked unit is within 2" of partial/total covet ?:)
     
  20. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Nah, man. You forgot Aleph Proxies.

    I can't believe I'm the one saying this, but... Ghazi aren't *that* bad. Their threat range is super close... So unless your board is way OTT dense, you should be fine with a few ARO troops. They're only a Ph12 smoke thrower - vs 14s on most other Smoke Warbands (from memory). I still think they should have only the Chain Rifle OR the E/Marat, not both.