I'm hoping this will be a quick one to answer as most of the things here have been answered elsewhere, but seemed to skip over a very important piece. It's well known now that the use of a ladder counts as "holding on to a vertical surface", https://forum.corvusbelli.com/posts/295903/ It's been established that you cannot claim partial cover while on a ladder, which is covered in the climb skill and specifies; "Troopers who are Climbing or holding on to a vertical surface cannot benefit from Partial Cover MODs". https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/prone-and-ladders.590/#post-5065 It's also been established that you cannot go prone while on a ladder for the same reason; "Troops can never be in the Prone state while they Climb or hold on to a vertical surface." https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/prone-and-ladders.590/#post-5136 But I was unable to find very much discussing the bullet point immediately before these two saying; "As long as the user is holding on to a vertical surface, he cannot declare any Skills other than Climb." So my question is; shouldn't this mean that you cannot declare any skill except move (or climb if desired) while on a ladder? So no BS Attack, no Hacking Attack, no Dodge, no Reset, etc? Now, we know that the presence of a ladder allows us to use the Move skill instead of the Climb skill; "Those pieces of scenery representing stairs and ladders allow to move vertical or diagonal surfaces using the Move Skill at no cost, without declaring Jump or Climb." The rules for a ladder allow us to use the Move skill instead of the Climb skill, but at no point does it seem to make the exception for allowing additional skills such as BS Attack. (I will note here that Climbing Plus does make this exception; "Climbing Plus allows its user to declare other Short Movement Skills or Short Skills (Move + BS Attack, for example) while moving along or holding onto a vertical surface." but there is nothing of this sort present anywhere relating to ladders.) Just to make a few additional notes; There was a thread in the forum about this, but it was answered with a "I think so", and then immediately turned into a discussion about climbing ladders with the base parallel to the ladder. https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/holding-to-ladders-and-shooting.26877/ I also want to point out I dislike when people poke at the rules system with the intention of finding holes or gaining an advantage, I want to be clear that's not what I want to do here. I just always thought you could shoot from a ladder. It seems common place to do so, and the last thread specifically about this that I linked above, quickly (though possibly erroneously) confirmed it. However, I see no reason why we would apply two bullet points of a rule while completely ignoring a third that uses the exact same language and lacks an exception that is present elsewhere. Thanks all
The terrain on the table does whatever it that both players defined it to do. And CB, in spite of good intentions, left the behavior of ladders undefined although they imply what they expected in several places. The simplest way to define ladders, to cover the most potential rules issues, is something like "Models that are in contact with a ladder have Climbing Plus while they move along the ladder." That makes all of the issues I've seen go away. Disclaimer: This isn't about advantage. There are some really important terrain features, like doors, that the rulebook doesn't provide a definitive behavior for. So some people have "automatic" doors and some people have "Activate to open" doors. Ladders end up in a similar situation.
Did we ever get an answer to the question whether you're allowed to be Prone while on ladders/climb+? Have we gotten an answer whether the FAQ on how Climb skill work and if it's the same for Climb+ or ladders? Disclaimer: I hate automatic doors :(
I don't think there was ever an official ruling from @HellLois , just the very tenuous justification from the climb rules that everyone mostly agreed upon mostly for the sake of "that's fucking stupid just don't do that shit".
It's been answered. You can't be prone while on a vertical surface whether by way of climb, climb+, or ladder: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/climb-prone-ladder-guts-roll.35166/#post-295903
I linked the thread where this was answered in the original post, and @QueensGambit did so again above. You cannot go prone while on a ladder due to the "holding on to a vertical surface" terminology. The question of shooting from a ladder as far as I can tell still hasn't been answered past "I think so", or house ruling it.
Which still leaves the complications regarding the FAQ up in the air. Particularly for some pieces of terrain similar to containers where a unit with Climb+ such as a Su-Jian or Tikbalang risks being faster by climbing over it than vaulting or traversing the same distance without the container in the way. My point is; very little makes issues go away unless you come to an agreement which ones you ignore, because CB has a tendency to leave issues untouched for years on end.
Interesting. I'd never noticed that you can't declare non-climb skills while clinging to a wall. Honestly, from a narrative perspective I like your idea. It's never made sense to me that you could fire a rifle while climbing a ladder. Let alone dodge. It makes sense that while climbing the ladder you're vulnerable to anyone who can shoot at you while you scurry up it. So I'm not sure you're actually poking holes in the rules. CB might very well have intended that you can't shoot while on a ladder. @ijw ? Can a unit without climb+, while on a ladder, declare short skills such as BS attack?
