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Prone and Ladders

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Triumph, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I just want a sanity check.

    If I'm reading the rules correctly ladders (and stairs) allow a model to move normally without declaring climb or jump skills.

    This means:
    • The model may shoot while hanging off the ladder
    • You can have a prone model climb a ladder
    • Models on a ladder claim cover against all models at a lower elevation than that model because they are prone

    Additionally, as shown in the rulebook when using a ladder the model is moving with its base flat against the ladder, so the model's silhouette could not crest the ladder until the model has completely finished moving to the top and exited the ladder, so models across the board at the same elevation (think Red Veil buildings) would be unable to ARO the climbing model until it had completely finished moving to the top of the building.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think your last point is not actually correct. There's a point at the very top of the ladder where a standing model at the level of the top of the building could see the base. It'd have cover, though.
     
  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Lower elevation not higher.
     
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Actually, the cover rules state that you need to have at least 33% of your silouette under cover to receive the bonuses, so if you are climbing a ladder and the enemy model is at the base of the ladder, neither have cover (for example).
     
  5. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yeah... but I can throw the Cover page back at ya! (Requiremets, 2nd bullet point)
    So... unless the Prone state overrides the Requirements of Cover, well.

    Also, you have to take into consideration that you measure whith the whole Silouette volume, meaning that if the prone miniature is onto a 1cm elevation, the attacker is actually higher (his top would be around 3cm of height). This would be based on the same principle that allows melee to be carried when the base of a miniature is higher, but in contact with the silouette of an enemy miniature.
     
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  7. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    From climbing:
    • “Troopers who are Climbing or holding on to a vertical surface cannot benefit from Partial Cover MODs.”
    My emphasis.

    And from ladders:

    “Those pieces of scenery representing stairs and ladders allow to move vertical or diagonal surfaces using the Move Skill at no cost, without declaring Jump or Climb.”

    So ladders let you normal move up and down a vertical surface without declaring climb or jump, however you still do not meet the requirements for getting cover, because you’re on a vertical surface, regardless of the fact that you’re climbing or not.
     
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  8. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    It does, it has its own rules and requirements for cover.
     
  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Either way, it better starts and finishes the order higher than the ARO miniature, or no cover at all.
     
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That seems to indeed cover the no cover for climbing models even on ladders.

    However, I can still have a model climb a ladder while prone correct?
     
  11. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Correct, because technically speaking, you're not declaring climb, you're declaring move, which is legal to do prone. :)
     
  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Well, yeah... It's a given that you better fulfill the requirements of a rule... Otherwise one would be cheating. :p
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Also is this really how models use ladders? Their silhouette goes sideways?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yes, it's stated somewhere (can't remember where right now) that when you "climb" (be it by the order, or the climbing plus skill, or using a ladder) the base of the miniature has to be in contact with the surface the model is moving throught.
    By climbing prone the silouette would be 0, btw
     
  15. The Other Warcor

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    Per my reading, a model may not be prone while on a ladder or any other vertical surface.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Climb

    Fifth bullet point, emphasis added:
    • Troops can never be in the Prone state while they Climb or hold on to a vertical surface.
     
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