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Yu Jing in N4

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    To those that are not up to date N4 is coming and is scheduled for Summer of 2020.

    This tread is created to discuss Yu Jing and their sectorials in the upcoming edition, Suggestions, ideas, wishlist's, opinions, things that work, things that do not work all are welcome if done in a polite manner.

    Now the most basic rule of the thread, be polite this is not a thread to be dissolved in arguing who has the correct ideas and who has not, all ideas are welcome and all comments and criticism is appreciated, as long as the tone is polite.

    For a more generic discussion of the upcoming N4 please use this thread

    Thanks.
     
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  2. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Legacy thread can be found here.
     
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  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    To work well in IA (which has no smoke), the Hulang could really use a marker state. Or give it smoke, if IA not having smoke isn't a deliberate design choice. I'd rather the Hulang have smoke.


    What happens with YJ in N4 is really going to depend on what happens to the Melee rules.


    In general, I would like to see some changes to the pricing formula, and when changes are made to said pricing formula mid-edition, every model affected by the change gets adjusted at the same time. For the most recent example of what I mean, Bolts would have gotten 3 smaller adjustments instead of one very large one: One adjustment when JSA was released due to a change in Combi+LSG pricing, a second adjustment when OSS was released due to a change in Drop Bear pricing, and the third with the major PanO update and all the various profile changes happened. Making all the pricing changes happen at the same time would make it easier to tell people that CB follows a pricing formula all the time.
     
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  4. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see resculpted and revised Bao Troopers. Would be nice to see them with more equipment that fits their brutal and often immoral activities, to distinguish them more from the Celestial Guard's profiles.
     
  5. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    In addition to general efficiency improvements, the Bao's list of equipment needs to read like a systematic list of concillium convention violations.
     
  6. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    Yeah, the Bao's really need a change to their profile in order to make them attractive (i.e read as viable) to take.

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
     
  7. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    The thing I want most is for profiles to reflect the lore.
    An adjusted points formula that kills the need for pseudo-HI workarounds in IA to start with. If pseudo HI are the new norm, make Zuyong pseudo HI, even though the thought pushes the bile to the tip of my throat.
     
  8. SpectralOwl

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    A discount for Hackable. High-tech factions should have every incentive to bring their advanced gear, even if it does add a new vulnerability. This would be a particularly big help for Yu Jing, as most of their best options are Hackable.

    A bit of flair for the Guijia. I know, old complaint, but it is a bit boring at the moment due to HI being produced for most of its roles. Give it something exciting that makes use of its TAG nature so it can see the field more.

    A rules modification to CC that makes minor improvements actually useful, like it is for BS. Increased burst would be a way to do this, or making it much easier to get into melee (for example making CC Attack include a full Move.)
     
  9. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    Well.
    I think in the most we should put IA to work.
    The faction is know for the great HI but most are strong, beautiful minis, but with only arm 3. I really think hulang should have a marker state.
    We need some kind of defensive midfield work. Only 2 profiles with minelayer, and one Is a multisniper, and the other a engineer without d-charges.

    Repair the Guija please.

    Tags should have a signature ability, something like the Jaegaers, like the JSA has stealth, Cutter has TO, guija should have something.
     
    #9 siri, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  10. Gero

    Gero Well-Known Member

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    I would love for the Bao Troopers and the Pheasant’s be revised as well.

    As they stand the Bao troopers look awesome (I like their sculpt, their fluff, and the promotional art for them, but a rework and new SWC would be grand!).

    However their Fireteam Options in ISS are very restrictive and outside Scenarios where Killing the enemy force isn’t the main Focus I feel I cannot justify their fireteams for the points cost, the equipment they bring, and the lack of specialist option.

    Linkable with Celestial Guards would be a great thing, and would not go against the Fluff (AFAIK) I mean, Bao and Celestial guards both have a dark reputation and getting captured by them ends in the Kuang shi program or Wu Ming Program, it makes sense.

    At least make it so they can form a Fireteam Amongst Themselves!

    Another good thing would be if they could have some sort of specialist skill available for some of their profiles, a Hacker might tread a tad much into Nomad Territory but they would lack the amount of support for repeater networks Nomads have no trouble setting up, Maybe an Assault hacker, you know Tracer programs, incapacitation programs, aggresive and a massive thorn on your side.

    The Pheasant, I’m not sure what to do with him honestly, maybe he could be a Wildcard in ISS? I think opening up his Fireteam options (for some of the profiles if not all of them) to be the most efficient way of helping him out!
     
  11. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    If ISS were to have any unit turn wildcard, it should be the Zhanying.

    IA either needs to have it's wildcard restrictions removed, or every other sectorial needs the same "one per army" wildcard restrictions imposed.

    Being able to include multiple Hai Dao in links would be an incredible boost in versatility and utility for the faction, and solve a lot of its its problems. They're also just a really cool unit.
     
    #11 Weathercock, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  12. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    Personally I am more keen on on making Wildcards a flat "one of per fireteam" to have it more clear-cut
     
  13. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Vanilla (or Generic)
    • Revising CC Taxes; lets get honest, BS matters. WIP matters. CC does not matter than often when playing the actual game.
    • Pts minor tweaks; come on. Light IS Agents are now considered bloated..
    • If needed, nerf CG+KS crutch. I found it very awkward even after CG died KS stay calm.
    • Gib us 2 Libertos! Whos funding them?!
    IS
    • Fireteam issues
      • Zhanyings, Baos could use the benefit of Ramah-Style 'tiered' build of <This unit counts as CG>. CG links combined with more ruthless agents would suggest a new playstyle for IS.
      • Upper Agents - Pheasants, Cranes, Hsien - getting a suitable role for their cause. The Idea of adding Wildcard profile would be nice, and restricting Wildcards numbers on team will illust who's in charge of lowly agents, along with cool gunfights.
        • This would need prohibiting KS joining their team because if Lulz.
      • Wu Mings are elite spearhead of IS, a Crane Haris option with 2 Wu Mings will be fun to play with. Remorseless prosecutor with two goons; its cool!
    IA
    • Rework on some units, please.
      • Guijia; Humanity's 2nd powerhouse runs a dumb TAG. Don't waste its design and do something plz!
      • Hulang; Give this guy an enhanced mobility, or at least a Smoke, or freaking Marker state.
      • Shang Ji; Most cutting edge-Power armor with military grade fraud. We want Alpha Manufacturer of this armor needs to be set upon Imperial jail and a rework. Grenades, Launchers, or some cool mobility. For now I cannot find any usage of this shiney armor.
      • Krit; god where should we start. I believe this guy was an improvised one.
    • Some futire WB units joining the IA, giving more choices.

    and WB soon plz!
     
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  14. SpectralOwl

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    Honestly, if actual CC specialists weren't so overwhelming the CC tax might be worth something. It should be as dumb to close to melee with Yu Jing or JSA as it is to try and beat PanO in a gunfight- including a very real chance of losing even a decent fighter. As it is, CC design is a bit bad, putting insane bonuses for it onto a few units and zip for everything else, basically requiring crit-fishing for standard Line Infantry. More burst and less crits for high-end units would be nice, since it would give much more value to small jumps in CC.
     
  15. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Vanilla is in a very good spot, it is only missing eclipse/albedo/white noise options, something of that sort would be nice.

    Kanrens and their Holoprojectors need something to stand out more;
    Bao and Pheasants need either point adjustment or some fancy rules, maybe more flexibility in fireteam composition to keep up with the fireteams arms race;

    IA is unsalvageable as a competetive faction due to top-down design just leave it as it is
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    IA is only unsalvegable as long as CB sticks to their points assignments and refuses to take a look at what is required to run the sectorial efficiently without access to cheap decoys and markers.
     
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  17. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Like I said - it is a top down design, starting from the idea of "HI sectorial" and trying to fit it in instead of designing from the bottom, starting with mechanics.
    Tinkering with formula by doing 1W+NWI around and cutting PH from Zuyongs clearly hit the limit so it is unsalvageable unless the whole army is turned inside out. Wishlisting ideas that have been thrown around here since the release are not realistic (or wont solve the fundamental problems) and dont seem to be in line with CB's design.

    leaving it as a "lovely miniatures okay" model line is for the best
     
  18. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    We all saw IA coming as <HI sectorial>. Better swallow it, although bitter. Having limited numbers mean it need more skill to swing around; IA don't have cheap CR cannon fodders afterall.

    Back on topic, I seriously hope for fast WB releases. It would fulfill some crucial roles for YJ I hope, such as DZ camo for 'goawayspeculo'..
     
  19. fartsocks

    fartsocks Active Member

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    Is that how it is now for IA? The list of fireteams page on the wiki just says "Wildcard trooper: up to 1 Hǎidào can join any Fireteam of this Sectorial Army." which suggests you can have multiple wildcards in a fireteam as long as they are all different units.
     
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well, Fatherboxx, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. The concept of a HI army can be done, but the assigned points costs, as CB has intimated they designed Krit with, really seems to be a flawed design approach. Instead maybe playtesting should be used to ferret out which profiles need the deadweight (automedikit, extra ph, etc. Stuff that costs more than it gives) instead of assigning deadweight first.
    You can have multiple different. The sectorial would be significantly less rigid, and thus more able to compete if the restriction would be removed. It would, however, make the sectorial the MaxHaidao Army.
     
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