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some questions about scenario "human target"

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Genesis, Oct 17, 2018.

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  1. Genesis

    Genesis Member

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    I have read over the rule of this scenario and found myself totally lost. Here are some questions I have, so appreciated if anyone can help.

    For the objectives
    "Have a Character with the blue marker assigned within the Scoring Zone at the end of the Round (2 Victory Points). By scoring this way, all the Victory Points on the Allies Character Cards are added as well."
    do you mean "its own scoring zone" rather than "scoring zone"?

    "At the end of the Activation of the Human Target Character (the one with the blue marker assigned to them) scores 1 Victory Point that is assigned to your Character card."
    so the character with the blue token will always score 1 point after its activation? and not to victory points, only to its card right?

    "Each time an enemy character with the assigned blue marker goes to the Infirmary (1 Victory Point plus the Victory Points of their Character card)."
    it's different from above, this point is added to your victory points, right? and also add the dead character's points on its card, but will not "absorb" its points, so the dead one will keep those points?

    For exchange & delivery

    "Swap the blue marker with the Target Allied Character if you don’t have Enemy Characters in Contact with the model."
    what do u mean by "the model"? is that the one who takes the action or the ally action target?

    For transfer & dispute

    "If the Character declaring the Action is in contact with at least one Enemy Character, there will be a Dispute in which the active Character will roll his or her Agility against the Enemy Character’s Strength in a face to face roll. If it’s successful, the Action will be completed. Otherwise, the Enemy will win and the Action will end.
    Give the blue marker to the Target Allied Character. Place
    1 Victory Point over your Character card, and remove all Victory Points assigned to Enemy Character’+s card. If there is at least one Enemy in Contact with the Objective, execute a free Dispute between the Objective and one of the Enemies in which the Target Character will roll his Agility against the Strength of the Enemy in dispute."

    1. I suppose the "strength" should be "brawn"?
    2. and when you do this action and success, do you put 1 score on the card of the character who took this action, or the character who was the target?
    3. this action's target is an ally, so which enemy character should I remove points from? or do you mean remove all the points from all the enemy characters' cards? that's a bit...crazy. :fearful:
    4. the "+" seems a mistake.
    5. so if the character is in contact with multiple enemy characters, which one will participate in the dispute face-to-face roll? and which player can decide this? in this case, do the rest enemy characters add some bonus to the one who rolls the dice, like disengage?
    6. what do you mean by "objective"? is that the action's ally target? and from the rule of dispute, it can only happen between human target character and others, how can the target (is not the human target yet) and an enemy trigger dispute?
    7. if both characters (who take the action and who is the target) are in contact with the enemy, does that mean you must win both dispute rolls and the action roll so that you can achieve "actual success"?

    "If this Action is not successful, the Underdog places the blue marker in a space in Contact with the Objective."
    this "not successful" not include the case you fail the dispute face-to-face roll, right? only when the simple roll fails.

    "The Roll in which the Human Target and another Enemy Character participate in is called a Dispute. To resolve this, the Agility of the Character that tries to move and the Strength of the Enemy in Contact must be contested in a Face to Face Roll. It must also be noted that:
    1. The Human Target must always participate, even if the model has Allies in contact with the Enemy Character.
    2. If the Dispute is successful, the Character that wins the roll will take the blue marker assigned to the Character card.
    3. Otherwise, the Character that roll with their Strength remains the assigned blue marker on the character card.
    4. If in the resolution of the Dispute that the blue marker changes Teams, all Victory Points assigned to the Character cards of the Team that lost control of the blue marker are removed."

    1. in what case can you trigger dispute rolls? will that only happen when someone who's the active character uses "transfer"?
    2. what do you mean "tries to move"? I don't see anything about moving. move in contact with an enemy will trigger a disengage, not dispute I guess?
    3. if the human target character always the active one, how can the character roll with brawn "remains" the marker when the dispute fail? it only can be "take over" the marker, cause the marker not belonged to him.
    4. so the team failed the dispute (in every case it will cause the marker change team, am I right?), the player will lose all the score on his characters' cards... is that too crazy? or did I get wrong with the meaning...?:disappointed_relieved:


    I know there're too many questions, and English is not my mother tongue.:disappointed: but again, thanks for all the answers and replies, this scenario is very interesting, I can't wait to try it. and I'm now working to translate the rules to introduce this fantastic game to my local club, hope everything goes right.:muscle:
     
    #1 Genesis, Oct 17, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  2. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    I actually ended up rewriting this scenario for my group in English because it doesn't make sense at all to play. I contacted V about it as well for a rewrite. I'll dig up my edit later on and post it here
     
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  3. Genesis

    Genesis Member

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    that will be soooo nice!
    btw, will there be an official rewrite soon?
     
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  4. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    I'm honestly unsure. I'll attach the file as a document for people because I've left a bunch of notes on it, because although I've rewritten it, I'm still unsure if parts of the rules are correct or not. I'm also dyslexic, so it may be a bit weird in places. Any helps or pointers would be appreciated.


    Here's a link to it.
     
  5. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    We're currently working on it, but we're going to Essen next week, so I'm afraid it won't be soon.

    Sorry about the incovenience.

    :disappointed_relieved:
     
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  6. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    bring me back something nice!
     
  7. Genesis

    Genesis Member

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    never mind, knowing you are working on it is quite enough :)
     
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  8. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    Like a Bahadurs box!
     
  9. volgo

    volgo Usuario

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    I hope you had a amazing time in Essen!
    ... so any new regarding Human Target clarification? :grin:

    Yes, I know, I won't let you rest. Sorry, I'm that bad! :smiling_imp:
     
    #9 volgo, Nov 9, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  10. volgo

    volgo Usuario

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    (Sorry for the double post, it is to up the topic a bit)

    I've had a new look at Human Target, both in the English and Spanish version (neither are my mother tongue, so I may be wrong somewhere)). I've found a couple of difference between the two versions (
    if I can trust Google translate).
    For example, in the Dispute paragraph, it is mentioned in Spanish that a every Disengage rolls involving the Human Target is a dispute and can result in "stealing" the Blue Marker. It seems to me that it disappears in English (
    again, I may be wrong).
    Also, one thing very confusing is the word "Objective" use in place of "Target" in many place (
    I suppose it comes from "Objetivo" in Spanish).
    In the Spanish version, it also seems to me that when a Transfer action is successful, you remove Victory Point from all the enemy character cards. The same happens if you "steal" the Blue Token during a Disengage roll.

    One thing that remain unclear in both version for me is who is the "model" who needs to be free of enemy in the Exchange and Delivery actions. The Active character or the Target character?
    Same point for the Transfer Action, who gains a VP in case of success? I suppose the Target, but it is not crystal clear.


    Also, the layout of the second page (Action and Dispute) could be improved, I think.

    I hope it helps. This mission seems a lot of fun, so I would really love it's writing to be improved!
     
  11. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    Since I speak spanish and a fair bit of english, I'll try my best to give my input on this.
    I want to say that the whole scenario needs a rewrite both in Spanish and in English. This particular bit was hard to understand in Spanish because, if you are following along after reading Transfer, you get the idea that Dispute is a new thing. Instead, it starts with "The disengage roll in which the human target and another enemy participe in is called a Dispute". So now we have characters doing a transfer and suddenly they are also disengaging? We guessed that they just mixed a lot of things they wanted to explain inside dispute. The thing is that both when there is a transfer or when there's a disengage, and the blue marker changes teams, the result is that the losing team wipes their victory points off their character cards. And that's it. And for the translation, I think they just forgot to include the word disengage in the english version of the document.
    You are right on both accounts.
    In Spanish it doesn't get any more precise, but going just by language I'd say it's the target because there is no reference to any other character in the sentence, so the elliptic subject (él/ella) of the sentence can only fall on the Target. But in our games we play it such as both need to be free because we aren't sure either, and also because it makes sense after reading Transfer.
    This is actually refered to in the reference guide. When the text makes a reference to You, it's refering to the Active character. So, in this case, the character that performed the Transfer action.
    I agree! I love this scenario, I think the idea of passing around a "ball" or "suitcase" or something to accumulate points before scoring makes for really interesting, push your luck, games that rewards the higher risk of keeping it before running to the scorezone.
     
    #11 treiral, Nov 23, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  12. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    We're playing this scenario in an event tomorrow. I still have some reservations on including it. I'll report back whether we decide to do so or not. People have voted to keep it in, but I think it's going to be a bit messy.

    I'll take a notepad, jot down observations and report back.
     
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  13. volgo

    volgo Usuario

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    @treiral Thank you very much for your input and the description on how you play it!
    @Flipswitch I'll read your observation with pleasure, as the mission will be in the next local tournament...
     
  14. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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  15. volgo

    volgo Usuario

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    Thank you, I just read it.
    Very nice event report, good job!
     
  16. volgo

    volgo Usuario

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    I went to a tournament that include Human Target this weekend.
    As I ended up acting as TO, I rewrite the mission in French for the players.
    I included all the input I got from this thread, so thank you all for you help!
    I had to answer a lot of questions during the game, but we find the mission very interesting, as it bring new challenges.
    Also, I lost this mission, but rushing in the wrong direction didn't help...
     
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  17. Roadrunner7431

    Roadrunner7431 Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    @volgo You clearly write excellent English. I communicate with some of the best players in the United States and not one of them understands the Human Target mission. I think that this mission has similarities to International Football and Rugby. Neither game is widely played and understood in the United States. If you could rewrite the mission in English we would be most grateful.
     
  18. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    We're currently working on rewriting English version to make it clear to understand.
     
  19. volgo

    volgo Usuario

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    That is a good news! Nothing replace an official version.
    I mainly did it in French as all my players speak this language (we are in the french part of Switzerland) and my daughter who was one of the players doesn't speak English yet (she's 11).
    @-V- Just to add some pressure on your shoulders, I could try to do a version of my own, and release it if the official one doesn't come out before January... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: (just kidding, of course, thank you again to be so reactive in the Aristeia! forums!)
     
  20. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    I helped out editing the new scenarios. I spent quite a bit of time on rewriting Human Target so it should!* help everyone.

    * i hope. Haha.
     
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