Perfect. I was fully prepared to explain this to my group and promptly play it as straight to dead anyway, but this is much better ;).
While we are here: When i crit with my Zhayedan with breaker can i assume the enemy looses 2 W instantly?
MML2 + Breaker Ammo = 1 hit with Shock, 1 with Breaker so the question is if one crit causes 1 wound of Shock and 1 wound of Breaker.
Ah ok. I knew it had to be harder XD. It's a tough case but I'd say it would... criticals bypass one of the ARM/BTS roll (in the case one hit trigger more than one like EXP), but ammos treat separately each attribute if their ammo affect both... and I see no rules about you having to choose one if you crit with this kind of ammo... so my money is in it would bypass the first ARM and BTS roll (hence, 2 wounds in this case) However I'd wait to an oficial clarification tho.
I see that from a RAW standpoint (I'm noticing a trend here...), but I'm having a hard time believing it was intended that a crit on shock+breaker is more deadly than a crit with shock+EXP or shock+Plasma. Then again, shock already does interact strangely with pure BTS hitting ammo.
The Special Ammo Chart on the wiki is unfortunately not a rules chart, but one of the many helpful charts such as the alphabetical weapons chart on the wiki. Given the way the FAQ answered critical hits on Shock, though, I think the person writing it didn't quite understand why it was even a question that needed answering - i.e. critical hits are directly equivalent of failing ARM/BTS roll.
Ah, okay. So critical with shock, sending people straight to dead, isn’t actually RAW, it’s just “how it’s played” by forum consensus, despite the RAW. Similar to how people didn’t play with wall engaging people despite RAW. I mean, I personally find the consensus ruling much more logical and less convoluted, but I’m not going to claim it’s RAW.
Fortunately in this case we have the chart where the crit effect it is specified (But it's true that following the RAW the conextion is blurred). So it is kind of RAW. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Special_Ammunition_Chart
Works just like EXP or DA, you lose one W outright from Breaker (the native attack) and then roll Shock Damage vs ARM.
No, because nothing in the rules says that a crit only applies to one of the many ammos combined. In this case, you treat as if you were going to crit with both Shock and Breaker and deal two wounds. EXP, DA and any other multiwounding ammos have a described effect in case of a crit because if not, an EXP ammo would deal 3 W/STR straight without any ARM roll. Breaker + Shock is a really rare case where a non T2 hit inflicts directly 2W/STR.
While I think this would be the most sensible way of handling it, I think there is a strong case to make for losing 2 W outright since both ammo types are not combined. At least that's what I am getting from the FAQ: Q: A figure declares a BS Attack with a Breaker Rifle and Marksmanship, does each impact oblige you to perform a BTS Roll and an ARM Roll, receiving two wounds if failing both? A: Yes. As stated on page 107, if the Ammunition affects different Attributes their effects are not combined, forcing the target to make a separate Roll for each affected Attribute.
This isn't as clear as I thought, 2 threads, 2 answers: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/domaru-dual-wielding.3518/ https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/em-ccw-rolls-wounds.27326/ I'd say RAW is closer to the 2 wounds one, but it could be the other too...
Except you only get the one automatic W from a Crit with any other ammo doing multiple W, even Plasma. You roll any remaining damage.
I think the difference here is that plasma is 1 defined ammo type, as is DA, viral and EXP. The combination of breaker and shock ties the saves of 2 distinct ammo types to the outcome of one die roll and as such should be applying both crit effects. T2 crits do 2 W/STR bypassing the save, so there is no precedent to be made here.
Yeah, this is pretty messy, actually. My rulerewrite wishlist would have shock simply apply the straight-to-dead effect to any failed ARM or BTS roll (with 1W troops, of course) and have crits explicitly calling out the roll as "failed" instead of "bypassed". So you'd get this: Shock ammo (technically Shock + Normal): 1W troop dies either failing the ARM roll or receiving a crit. Shock + DA or EXP: 1W troops dies if they fail any of the ARM rolls or receiving a crit. Shock + Breaker: 1W model dies if they fail the BTS roll or receiving a crit. Shock + Plasma: 1W model dies if they fail either the ARM or the BTS roll or receiving a crit. It's short and concise. It doesn't add unintuitive extra rolls. It's consistent across all ammo types when adding MML2 or DW (with a shock CCW) to a unit. I'd also make it incompatible with non-lethal ammo, cuz we don't need failed flash pulses sending people straight to dead... probably by stipulating that the trooper has to lose 1 W for the straight-to-dead effect to be applied.
I had a related idea once where shock (and viral) had a label "deadly" which did what you expect those ammos to do, and then marksmanship simply added "deadly" to the attack, without needing to invoke somewhat arcane ammunition mixing rules.
