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Shikami multi rifle?

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by wuji, Jul 14, 2021.

?

Would people be willing to pay the extra 2 points to upgrade the Shikami Combi to a Multi Rifle?

  1. Yes

    17 vote(s)
    85.0%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  1. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I just wish it hit a little harder. All those points and it just has a combi rifle.. this would help further differentiate the two loadouts for what you want them for.
     
  2. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, both profiles need a price drop anyway, and they need some form of offensive weapon with more than 8" range.

    My vote has been that one gets the Multi Marksman rifle, and the other gets Multirifle. Add SWC cost to the MMR and now we have some interesting units to play with that are more than just objective runners.
     
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  3. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    I think an MMR would potentially push them a little TOO far forward; personally I wish they would take a page out of the Hulang's book and change them to be 1W + NWI instead of 2W (for the price reduction) and give both profiles a Nanopulser. Maybe a further reduction because having Super Jump + Climbing Plus is somewhat redundant and a model really shouldn't pay full price for both.

    It's so very close to being a badass ninja in power armor, but 0 cost reducing tricks on the profile make it way too expensive to seriously consider. Just compare the 41 point Combi Hulang to the 48 point Combi Shikami. Shikami gets +1 CC, +2 PH, Climb+, Super-Jump, and 6-2 MOV, but the Hulang has a Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades, +4" Forward Deployment, and a scarier melee weapon while being 7 points less (Martial Arts L3 vs L2 doesn't matter because Hulang has Monofilament anyways).

    Such a badass model should be more playable.
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think the Shikami and Hulang needs to be kept different, I don't think it's healthy to have some sort of masquerade that Yu Jing would regain stuff that JSA had and that these two factions need to be kept separate. Unfortunately, the Kunai fluff kind of cockblocks marksman rifle, as that's where I think Shikami has the best potential to shine for JSA, though while a MULTI anything is better in this economy I think a Shock Marksmanrifle is more appropriate. Not that that is a real blocker if there's a will to change it...

    The two points of PH is actually really damned costly (and good considering how important Dodge is now!) and having a repeatable anti-matter weapon with AP isn't to be sneezed at, particularly if they bring in a few more elements like that in ITS in the future. While the MOV distribution has no impact on the price, that's the true glory of the Shikami, IMO it's better bang for the points than the 2 points that 1W+NWI would give (since Shikami already has courage)
     
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  5. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I'd prefer they keep their attributes and skills, it makes them very different from all other and honestly, when the opportunity for me arises, I will post videos of the Shikami in action for me, the way dodge works, and their move attributes, the tricky dick shit these guys can do is phenomenal, that being said, every now then, you just cant close the gap and combi rifle doesnt put enough pressure on the enemy. I'm fine with them keeping the 16 inch range band cause given their mobility there's really not anywhere on the board they cant get within 16 inches of and avoid being shot at but 16 inches is a gauntlet sometimes. I like the assault pistol for its burst, the only thing that I might wanna change on that is like a +1 B. Or shit, you could just make the unit +1 Damage. I do find it weird that in JSA no units are over 50 points aside from the OYoroi. The Oniwabans are fine for having the Nanopulsers they need to just be very choosy with who they use it on.
     
  6. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I'd be fine without the big guns if it could pull off the cyberninja aspect. Lets go outside the box on this one. Dodge (+1B). Badass cyberninja that is great at dodging in the active? Hell yea. Move 8-2, what's this? 8" super jump? Neat! If they want it to lean into mobility make it terrifyingly mobile. I'd be fine with that. But right now it has no place in the roster, due to overall poor design for the cost.

    To be honest though, I don't see NA2 stuff getting updated anytime soon. So factions that only exist there (Druze, JSA, Spiral) will languish for a while unlooked at.

    EDIT:
    I would love to see that. I have yet to find them in any way impressive outside their cool models and they are incredibly weak to any sort of Sixth Sense hackers (aka, anybody in a link) as well as in any sort of direct confrontation for their points cost. So they end up eating a lot of orders to maneuver into close range, which means they achieve less than things that can do the same thing for less orders from a distance.
     
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  7. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I would settle for their weapons remaining the same if they got BTS 6 and Dodge +1B in the active turn. This would add a couple functions to them:

    1. minefield clearing. Warband counter. Though, I think lots of people would be upset at that so I would settle for a compromise. The least improvement between DODGE + 1B and Dodge +3...

    2. BTS 6, meaning it's not just gimmicky in mobility but elite and designed to go in and take objectives from hackers clogging up the midfield. Alternatively to make it really focused against hackers and keep the price down, could make it a firewall instead of BTS...

    CB if you're listening. This is literally all Shikami need, better dodge making making getting them to the target easier and better BTS or Firewall so they're more resilient to hacking and JSA would feel a little more elite. Yes were aware this might push at least one of the profiles of 50 points. But being perfectly honest, fireteam duo is very complicated to make use of for them, and this would just make them very fine solo pieces needing very minimal support from anyone else in their list.
     
    #7 wuji, Jul 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
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  8. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    You know what is really sad? If they had just left in the GOD DAMNED NIMBUS GRENADE the Shikami would be fine right now. Toss that out, then run and dodge across an open space. Enjoy your -9 to hit and -1 Burst ARO while I close the distance.
     
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  9. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Right, it was a great tool for JSA. It had the elite feel, not quite eclipse grenades but more than just smoke.
     
  10. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    I’d pay 2 points for an antimatter weapon even if it was disposable.
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to. Don't think any unit does. I'd even not be surprised if Trench-hammers are free like a few of the D-Charges seem to be.

    But what'd a Trench-hammer or D-Charge do for the Shikami?
     
  12. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the Trench hammer literally just a DA+AP CCW which the Shikami already carries? One of the profiles already has D-Charges too.
     
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  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, it does... and no wonder, it's on the profile I never played.
    Trench-Hammer is only DA, not AP.
    But yeah, Shikami is well-endowed in melee and I don't think there's much wasted space there since PH is so useful on a 6-2 unit that dodges 4" that doesn't rely on D-Charges to deal AM damage...
     
  14. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    That’s anti materiel.
    THAT’S what I’m talking about.
     
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  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Aha, I see now!
    WHOOOPS!

    Antimatter = EXP+Mono? Or maybe taking one from Revelation Space: Direct Template Weapon. Indiscriminate. Explosive. ARM=12. State=Dead.
    (Though the one in Revelation Space was small enough to hide in a tooth cavity and had a 5 kiloton yield.)
     
  16. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    For some objectives or just hitting a little harder in melee the Dcharge is fine, almost it's only a point more
     
  17. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
    Warcor

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    I really don't get the D-charges on that profile. Combi Rifle is fine as it can enter suppressive fire. But that Shikami is more expensive and wants to turtle up, as it as no meaningful ways to make an approach.

    Whereas the other Shikami has Assault Pistol to cover fire his approach, Flash Pulse and even a Contender for ARO duty.

    I don't think a MULTI Rifle would be that interesting, because the core problems would still be the same. To me, it would be far more interesting if they got Deployable Repeaters, CrazyKoalas, Mines, some Deployable, basically, instead of the D-Charges. So, the AssPistol Shikami would go for trades and CC and this one would be focused in area control/denial.

    Just my two cents.
     
  18. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    The idea behind the Multi Rifle suggestion was better area denial through Suppression Fire with a weapon that could hurt robust troops without Shock Immunity (NWI and Dogged) or TAGs and HI that AP 13 is considerable. Alternatively, I like "Null Deploying" as well. I would settle for literally any deployable that is thrown or peripheral. I would prefer something with E/M to threaten an Avatar but I suspect Koalas and Shock Mines are all we would get. I also think that would be encroaching on Hulang territory.
     
  19. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    The idea of them having Koalas I like because it suits few things. JSA doesnt have strong AROs but they do have area denial. Moreover, they already have Koalas which means its not out of their arsenal. It will help protect them against not only hackers but everyone for at least one order. It will allow them to force hard decisions on the enemy, especially for the approach.
     
  20. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    That's settled then. Koalas and Dodge (+3).
     
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