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Samurai

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by yoink101, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

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    I have mostly played Acontecimento, Neoterra, and Steel Phalanx. I recently started putting together JSA and am excited to put them on the table. In list building, I have found some profiles that are very exciting. Saito, Yojimbo, Ninja (I already like the Ninja as I have played ISS, I'm a traitor, I know), Oniwaban, Ryuken 9 SMG.

    Keisotsu are a tough pill to swallow coming from the land 10 point, BS 12 line infantry. Using them as order batteries will be fine, however.

    The thing that I'm struggling with using are Samurai. I love the idea of sword wielding berserkers running around murdering. I have become somewhat competent at this while playing Steel Phalanx. Phalanx have ODD, smoke, eclipse, and in the case of Ajax, super durable pieces. I don't get how to employ Samurai. The Daiyokai is cool. It's also an unmodified BS 13 that will get shut down by most modifiers. Domaru are BS 12! BS 12 is the BS 10 of heavy infantry. Most skirmishers can beat them at gun fights reliably. I want to get them to berserk their enemies, but they don't have smoke to close the gap. Assault can be good, but I need gunfighting to get to the requisite 8 inches.

    How do you employ Samurai in your armies? What tactics work for you? How do you support them?
     
  2. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Raw BS 13 is still pretty great. Perhaps not when fighting other BS 13+ units with vis mods in their plus range bands, but effective all the same.

    That said, The DaiYokai is a beefy unit, but I think one of your best ways to deliver the Samurai goodness of Domaru would be with a Tanko team with at least 1 Missile launcher. That way the Tanko can clear AROs while the Domaru surge forwards. A cheaper alternative would be a Mk12 Karakuri and a Haris Domaru. Karakuri have BS 13 can take a major beating due to Immunity:Total, and the Domaru can keep skirmishers at bay with its E/M grenades and chain rifle until you are ready to send it off on its own.
     
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  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Counterpoint: You don't. And you've hit on all the reasons you really don't.

    JSA is fundamentally a different army from Steel Phalanx, despite the high CC across the board in both armies. In JSA, you can't rely on smoke or ODD to even odds for your beefy pieces.

    Think about the types of units you need to include just to make the army work -- you need at least one (but probably 2) of the smoke carriers, the Ryukens to hold the midfield, and enough orders to support your pieces it CC becomes necessary. I need at least one Oniwaban to remove any AROs with big visual mods, and I have to take at least one HD (so a minimum of 25/0 or 17/.5) to protect my HI.

    By the time I meet my prerequisites to run a samurai link, I've already taken about 200 points of my list. I stick to Oniwabans, personally. If you want to play Samurai, I think the Musashi + 2 Tankos or Domaru Haris are more approachable ways to do it.
     
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  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed that it's tough to throw lots of samurai at the problem.

    What I call a Samurai 7 list is fun, but it's definitely NOT an ITS list:
    Japanese Secessionist Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4
    OYAMA Lieutenant Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28)
    DOMARU Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 39)
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    TANKŌ Flammenspeer, Contender / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    TANKŌ Blitzen, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    O-YOROI AP HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas / EXP CCW. (2 | 86)
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  5. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

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    What about missions that require standing on an objective, holding a zone, or holding a room? Having a two wound model can be nice, especially with access to a cheap TO khd to cover it. Do you find that the domaru in a keisotsu core team has a place, or would you just grab a shikami?
     
  6. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that a typical job for the Karakuri (solo or haris)?
     
  7. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Karakuri are better for this due to their weapon combinations, Total Immunity and greater resistance to hacking.

    A lot of players as time goes on are less sold on the KHD ninja. The Tac Bow means it has very few ways to win a fight besides spending a ridiculous number of orders to move at someone for CC, and other than that it's just a standard marker state KHD.

    I think the Domaru in the Keisotsu link is kind of a trap. The Keisotsu link is usually going to want to keep range, but Domaru will always want to be closer than further away. Moving that link to the midfield is a good way to lose 5 orders. I don't think the Shikami really does the same thing -- it's primarily a mobile specialist, but the Domaru is a beatstick.
     
  8. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    The Shikami can work, especially the one with Combi (an ODD HI in Supression Fire is something difficult to deal with). And, if it comes to holding a zone, use that Climbing+ Skill and get to the top of a building where no one else can get.
     
    #8 Abrilete, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  9. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I only put a Domaru in a Keisotsu link if the mission tends to have all-or-nothing, end-of-game scoring where I can safely commit all 5 bodies on Turn 3 and use the link bonuses or added CC Burst on the Domaru to have a critical impact. Armory or Engineering Deck are two obvious examples... Commit everything to fueling that Domaru, toss those E/M Grenades, and/or use those Keisotsu to trip mines or Koalas and give a clear path to the Objective Room.

    Domaru Haris or Duo is another consideration. I'm not even sure how effective it is, but you can stage the in the midfield for a dominant late-game turn, and you can keep them safe if you use Ryuken-9 to support it. They're pretty good if your our opponent will have a durable datatracker, link team, etc. committed to the midfield where they'll be vulnerable.

    One consideration though is the significant rise in Hacking in our meta. We've been able to get away with Heavy Infantry for a long time, but now there are definitely matchups that would crush some of the TAG or HI-centric lists we've run in the past. Something to be aware of...
     
  10. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    I haven't had a whole lot of opportunity to experiment with it, but scenario depending, the Daiyokai seems like it might be a decent option to slingshot a domaru or two up into the midfield using either the haris or the duo. For a similar points investment to the haris, you could run the domaru, karakui x2 haris as well.
     
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's definitely Karakuri work.
     
  12. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

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    My issue with just saying the karakuri is better, even though it is in most cases, is that samurai are cool.
     
  13. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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  14. clever handle

    clever handle Well-Known Member

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    I find that to use the samurai models you need to either commit to the DoTanko variant of your choice, of include a single Shikami (I prefer the cheaper nimbus, assault pistol). You can include a Domaru in the keisotsu link, but I think that is to be saved for certain lists & missions.

    Obviously the DoTanko link is our version of the pain train. I typically take Neko, the 27pt Domaru, the Spitfire Domaru, the SMG/blitzen Tanko & the Missile tanko. This is to ensure my team can reform if the Domaru spitfire goes down to a sniper or missile launcher in the active turn. I would typically run this list with appropriate specialist support and either Saito, an Oniwaban or a Shikami depending on the specific mission and/or opponent.

    The Shikami is a great resilient datatracker and/or Xenotech escort. By spending one or two orders you can have him relatively safe, hiding in the midfield, prone on the roof of a building or high up on a wall at a bizarre angle. High phys and multiple wounds make him resilient against speculative fire attacks. The assault pistol is devastating up close in the active turn.

    I think the Domaru in the kiesotsu link has a place - I'd do it as a place to shore up a 0SWC lieutenant option while boosting the MSV kempei, yuriko and the keisotsu heavy weapon of you're choice. The Domaru can keep you relatively safe from things like fidays and breakaway skirmishers. A B2 chainrifle is good protection against that new Yu Jing AD trooper too.

    I haven't tried the Aristo haris yet with tankos and mushashi, and I just don't see a place for the Daiyokai (i think his profile is too unfocused and he's too expensive for a BS13 platform with the guns he brings to bear... if he had berserk like a domaru did I'd love him)
     
  15. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
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    I'm also of the opinion that Samurai links should be small. I've had success running a 3 man core of Domaru, and some middling results running a Daiyokai Haris, but I'm honestly starting to feel that a Domaru Duo is the way to go. If a single Domaru can't kill it in CC, it likely can't be killed. If you need more than 3 ablative wounds to land that Domaru into close range, then you've picked a poor route. I'll be trying a full 5 man Samurai link tonight, but I'm not expecting huge results. As others have mentioned, there's more killy options for the points.
     
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  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I know, but proper tool for the job is definitely the Karakuri. Shame that the geishabots are such a pain in the butt to assemble.
     
  17. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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    I think you've got their Vibro-Dong setting on too high, mate. XD
     
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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Literal LOL...

    Well played, sir!

    Though I do believe that is a different forum member's kink, 'cuz it sure isn't mine!
     
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  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Savonarola. I miss that guy. If ALEPH was an H.R. Geiger fan...
     
  20. Paradur

    Paradur Fukurô Keibi
    Warcor

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    Hmm I've been running the following samurai link and done pretty well with it:

    Neko
    Domaru spitfire
    Domaru FO
    Tanko missile launcher
    Tanko light shotgun

    Backed up with a ninja and or yojimbo.
     
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