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Saito Army Glitch?

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by ambisinister, Mar 27, 2019.

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  1. clever handle

    clever handle Well-Known Member

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    just an FYI guys - the points costs & profiles on Yuriko have been swapped in Army relative to the PDF for a while now, I got confirmation in the ARMY bugs thread a few months back that the PDF was correct. I believe there was a discrepancy between online ARMY and mobile ARMY. After this most recent ARMY update the discrepancy with the PDF is still there.

    in the PDF panzerfaust Yuriko is 23pts, in ARMY she's 24.
    in the PDF emitter Yuriko is 24pts, in ARMY she's 23.

    ...sure do hope I get to keep my spec ops saito, he kicked the NKHD to the curb last year!
     
  2. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously JSA is completely broken and overpowered if we get a 40 point, one wound, specialist operative.

    Seriously though, there is no reason he shouldn’t be in JSA. We’ve already got a lack of infiltrating/forward deployed specialists. Saito being able to push a button on his way to murder is almost a necessity.
     
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  3. LZ35SRX

    LZ35SRX Well-Known Member

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    Normal Ninjas were already useless. They cannot close in - no smoke, they are worse than Oniwaban at scalpeling, they are expensive af for what they bring to the table.
    Yeah, sure, you can get 29 pts KHD Ninja to push one-two buttons, but you could get Aragoto KHD for 25, and she would bring much more with the overall style of playing JSA has.
    The only useful profile Ninjas could have had would have been Multi Sniper... if not for their abysmal (for a sniper) BS 11.
     
  4. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    Those are words quite fitting for players that don't want to get outside their comfort zone. Everything becomes easy-mode no skillz with the addition of smoke. With infiltration, TO , Hidden Deployment, a ninja has enough tools to close in. One of my most MVP units was the ninja hacker until the KHD were added. A bit pricy but very versatile my ninja could blast a knight from a far with the humble combi and later gut a crocmen close personal in the same game or successfully ambush and immobilize the key component of an enemy HI link making easy for the rest of the army to dismantle the fireteam. All that while being able to accomplish objectives.

    Allowing the specialist operative option from DBS Saito in JSA was a lazy decision, so I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to take it out. The new digital approach allowed by Infinity Army and the new changing meta between ITS seasons shapes rosters in a more dynamical way. Players should get used to the fact from now on they may enjoy unit profiles and options that will disappear later or get new ones. That's the way initiated with Ko Dali, followed by Alive team and Uprising and that seems it will become a more common trend.
     
  5. Jedkar Midune

    Jedkar Midune Member

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    Non-operative Saito rolled a 20 on my 1st tourney game on Saturday...Its okay guys... Karakuri kick ass! Really really hard.
     
  6. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Have we received official word about the status of the unit?
     
  7. Goonhammer

    Goonhammer Well-Known Member

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    Hey, if he's no longer a specialist in JSA, that frees up enough points for another karakuri in pretty much every list.
     
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  8. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, just give them AVA 5 with Fireteam: Core.
    I am sure nobody would mind that...
    *evilgrin*
     
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  9. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The FO profile is very good but overshadowed by Saito. It's worth paying the points up over the KHD to get a gun that might actually win a gunfight. You'll notice the KHD has fallen out of favor with a lot of players because it's a lot of cost for something that will push one button and die.

    I don't think it was lazy at all. It makes no sense that JSA would not get all of the options for a merc who was *literally designed for the army first*, just on a basic level. I would add that the army basically stops functioning in ITS without this option. Without Saito every list is forced to take an alternative midfield button pusher, which means every JSA list loses basically 3 orders so they can afford a Ninja button pusher. That would be awful design as it basically pigeonholes every flavor of JSA into 10 orders.

    I don't like what Saito changes have done to his internal balance against Ninjas, but I think everyone can accept that it's been a huge positive for the army as a whole.
     
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  10. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I'd much rather a force be externally competitive, even at the cost of internal balance. Specialist Saito is one of the few excellent options in a Sectorial that could really use the help. There's a reason Saito, Ryuken-9 Minelayer and Yojimbo show up so often... The Sectorial desperately needs what they bring to the table, and most other units don't offer enough to compensate for what these units bring. JSA already has (in my mind) some really major competitive deficiencies. No reason to make them worse.
     
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  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Saito is that he is one of three AVA1 sources of smoke in the JSA. So he's already an auto-include (the people that aren't taking Saito are taking Shinobu instead, because they want the MonoCCW for big-game hunting).

    If all the Ninjas had smoke grenades, it'd be better internal balance against Saito and Shinobu. Seriously, what Ninja doesn't have smoke grenades for a distraction?!?



    Uhm, ALL skirmishers have Line-trooper BS. Croc Men are BS12 just like Fusiliers. Ninjas are BS11 just like Zanshi. SAS, Chasseurs, Foxtrots, and Hardcases are BS11 like Line Kazaks. Al-Hawwa, Hunzakuts, and Tuaregs are BS11 like Ghulam. Zeros are BS11 just like Aguaciles. Zerat are BS11, just like Morat Vanguards. Daysus and Nagas are BS12, just like Devas. Clipsos are BS11, just like Kamael. Any skirmisher unit I didn't name is BS12, which is still Line-trooper BS.

    Ninjas are trivially easy to force the opponent into -12, all they need is range and cover. That puts anyone not packing MSV2 out of the firefight. Anyone trying to close with a Ninja then has to deal with a CC23MA3 monster.
     
  12. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    It boggles my mind looking at JSA right now. The faction of ninjas and the only forward deployed specialists. With the fact that JSA is paying a huge premium for close combat on their infiltrators it sucks that they’re all very focused and expensive. Saito was a toolbox when he was a specialist. It was absolutely necessary for JSA. Now, once again, Saito is cool, but does JSA really need another close combat killer with a subpar bs that’s useful only because of heavy modifiers? This is a game usually about capturing objectives or pressing buttons.
     
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  13. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    Ninjas with Combi can do this in reative with Supressive Fire too. Cover + ODD (TO) + Supressive = -12. If, for god sake, you lost cover, due to a MSL 1 REM, you can, still achieve -12 trading the cover with bad range.
     
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  14. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    Agree.

    specially the majority of ours CC specialists are MA 3, so B 1. I mostly of the time loved to use Saito due to his MA 4, and B2 most of the time. 1 dice is too unpredictive.
     
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  15. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    That's what Ryuken-9 exist for, and they do it better, for cheaper... Better BS, x-visor, supporting mines, multiple ammo types, SMG point discount makes them specifically designed as one of the game's best Suppressive Fire platforms. Ninja overspend for this role, since TO Camo, Close Combat capability, Hidden Deployment, etc. are all abilities the ninja pays for that don't contribute to Suppressive Fire. Even buying the Combi is not an easy decision... That's a really expensive profile. So if you Suppress with a Ninja, you're comitting to a role that throws away a lot of the Ninja's value. Sometimes it can be the right move, certainly, but this is why players tend to lean on the Ryuken-9.
     
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  16. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    good Call !
     
  17. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @siri
    One method I had success with was 2-3 Ryuken-9 Minelayers out in the midfield, supported by Yojimbo's Koalas, with 1-2 Hidden Deployment units in central locations.

    The enemy gets hung up on the Minelayers, Suppressive Fire and Koalas. The Koalas are also highly valuable for running through minefields to trip them, paving the way for 1-Wounders. The TO units can then reveal and go for close combat or Oniwaban shotgun kills.

    TO is helpful here because your opponent can't anticipate it with 100% accuracy. Ryuken-9 being visible is fairly useful however, because you want your opponent to fixate on them and commit midfield resources to trying to remove them. Saito + Oniwaban + Ryuken-9 SMG are one of my favorite examples of mutual support in Infinity... but if none of those units can push a button, it actually really harms how effective this setup can be.
     
  18. Genesis

    Genesis Member

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    okay, so i asked CB from their FB, and got confirmed that saito lost specialist in JSA and ikari, it's not a bug, that's what they decide.

    upload_2019-4-2_11-22-51.png
     
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  19. Genesis

    Genesis Member

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    yes
     
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  20. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    Bummer. I thought they wanted to sell models...
     
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