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Reinventing JSA: Some Thoughts

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by barakiel, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    For me, JSA are in a similar firepower situation to tohaa pre-sukuel. What we need most is our sukuel equivalent. Something reasonably resilient, linkable and well armed with a solid big gun. HMG, Feuerbach, missile kind of tier.

    Failing that, a solid core of a new elite LI to differentiate our choices from cheap shit troops or expensive HI
     
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  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    By which we all agree that JSA did not get buffed anywhere near as much as anyone else, which is a net loss even if JSA is stronger than it was before.

    Really sad, because JSA does have some of the best models/visual identity in the game, which makes them attractive to newcomers. It would be really good if we could do something to make JSA easier for new players to use. In technical terms, I mean lowering the skill floor without raising the skill ceiling.



    Well, fluff-wise, I don't see how we could make a 'LI Samurai'. Because that's what we're building around here. You have the crappy ashigaru Keisotsu, or you have the power-armored badass Samurai Domaru/Tanko/O-Yoroi. And the Tanko are stretching it to be called Samurai.

    So this elite LI would have to be something like the Ryuken, who are outside the usual social caste system in the JSA. Or maybe just some linkable Ryuken? Add a couple new profiles like the old Raiden, spitfire and MSR, maybe include the HRL in there as well, but it'd have to lose camo to be linkable. So, mimetism or even ODD, maybe some mines or CrazyKoalas/Madtraps, and Veteran, just to give a raised middle finger to Jammers.
     
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  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Eh, fuck the Sukeul. That profile shouldn't exist, the HMG especially, and it's a big part of why Tohaa were overpowered, until the new, even-more-overpowered OSS sectorial came along. I'd prefer a more holistic approach be taken to the faction.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    A Ryuken-9 profile that trades FD2, Minelayer and SMG for a HMG could fit that role.
    A Kempeitai carrying the sectorial's only* Multi Sniper (and either MSV 1 or something to impose MODs) could fill that role.
    A Karakuri with an SWC weapon could fill that role.
    A completely new type of Ninja* could also fill that role.

    I like this thinking

    * Ninjas don't exist.
     
  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, Mimetism, Multiterrain, Stealth, Courage, and Veteran L1 aren't that over-the-top. But mimetism is kind of a crutch to fix a profile, and I don't want to make a JSA Kamau MSR problem!


    What about some "Uprising Veterans", troops who managed to survive the entire uprising? That would give them Veteran L1 fluffwise. BS12, WIP13, maybe PH11. Probably still ARM0 or ARM1, though, due to the need to hide among civilians. And definitely some extra deployable or perimeter shenanigans.
     
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Section9 i'm still partial to the idea of an impetuous drop troop with eclipse grenades.
     
  7. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    So, going back with some of the ideas mentioned above, I'm going to try retooling my Tanuki concept to fit that of a class of ninjas specially trained for support operations. The goal here would be to provide a trooper with a variety of options, all based around some form of mischief or trickery in order to help the rest of the army shine.

    "Tankuki" Specialized Support Regiment

    Medium Infantry, Cube, Regular

    MOV 4-2 / CC 22 / BS 12 / PH 13 / WIP 13 / ARM 3 / BTS 0 / W 1 / S 5 / AVA 3
    Skills & Equipment - MSV L1, Forward Deployment L1, Martial Arts L2, Kinematika L1, V: Dogged

    Tanuki (AD1: Parachutist) - Chain Rifle, SMG, Eclipse Smoke Grenades - Pistol, E/M CCW
    Tanuki Hacker (AD1: Parachutist, Killer Hacking Device) - Combi Rifle, Grenades - Pistol, Shock CCW
    Tanuki (Holoprojector L2) - Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, Eclipse Smoke Grenades - Pistol, Shock CCW
    Tanuki (Holoprojector L2) - Multi Sniper Rifle, Crazykoalas - Pistol, AP CCW

    Kind of like a JSA Kanren, but with more to do. The MSV1 might be a bit much though.
     
    #67 Weathercock, Aug 1, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  8. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Yeah I'm not a fan of auto-take bandaids either but it seems to be the modus operandi at the moment
     
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  9. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    True, Karakuri Haris is way better. Then why don't use the Irregular version? 24 point of disposable earth-earth missile.... He need to just be parked near a lane where your opponent HAVE TO expose his pieces. Then he have to guess... Will i get a Chain Rifle in the face or an Engage ARO from that monster?
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    If he tries an engage ARO he'll probably be in the embarrassing situation of being knifed to death by a Fusilier.
     
  11. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Engage is absolute garbage. That entire plan kind of falls apart once you start relying on that, and that's before you consider the work you have to put in to get an opponent to come Musashi's way in the first place. He is, afterall, the number one trooper your opponent wants to avoid (outside of the array of units that are now better in CC than him because of NBW, but whatever...).
     
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  12. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Are we speaking of the same model? I think i almost never lost my Musashi... And in the game he did nothing, he created a vacuum around himself no one dared to close...

    BTW, who is the mad who use CC13 instead of BS15 (12+3) when opposing a dodge on PH14?
     
  13. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    As a Tohaa player, I have to agree that the Sukeul was overkill.
    I remember that day when the profile was shown: no one belived it was a Tohaa profile, and everyone thought there was some mistake either in the stats or the cost.

    Tohaa had clear weakneses: few anti-armor weapons, mediocre shooters, separation between good shooters and specialists, low ARM values, no Sixth Sense (weak to Surprise attacks from camo Infiltrators)... Despite that, Tohaa had tools to come around those weakneses. It was difficult, but it was playable and we just needed a small push.

    The Sukeul came and single-handed removed those weakneses. And with her came even more improvements to the Faction.
     
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  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The one who has a sensor bot nearby to shoot him off with Triangulated Fire anyway.
     
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  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't need much to help him at least get somewhere he's set apart from the Karakuri. The one thing Karakuri are kinda shit at is Objective Room missions because they get smoked and swamped in CC fairly easily and they're the one thing in JSA that are actually awful at it.

    You drop Heavyweight so he can actually get in the room. Drop the disposable long range weapons and replace them with a pair of chaincolts or flamethrower or zapper or something DTW oriented. Maybe throw in an anti hacking Tinbot for good measure. Now he's 50-60pts of first wave room clearance that can get in there and take several orders to shift out of the room, hopefully causing an over committment of expensive ish models to shift him out which can then get counter attacked by Oniwabans/Domaru.

    If it needs a discount chuck frenzy on it. It's thematic to JSA anyway and it isn't some wildcarding constantly linking bullshit like the Santiagos so it won't just be an egregious discount.

    I'd also allow him to join a Musashi Haris, gives them access to a gun toting model then if they want it.
     
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  16. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Engage using the CC stat instead of the dodge stat would solve the problem I think (and also would differentiate Dodge and Engage in a more useful way) but runs the risk of making a few of the super-CC monsters too good (McMurrough, for example.)
     
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  17. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    That would be a nice use, but in that case you have 24 points that are doing nothing for you because the dude is irregular (so 0 contribution to his CG) plus he has nothing useful to do with his irregular order; if the enemy can flank him and shoot away from engage range then his defense is pretty bad. Plus you have to expend orders moving him from your DZ to that sweet stop. Too much trouble for what you gain.

    This is a sweet idea. To avoid make over the top CC monster even better just make that an ability and give it to some units.
     
  18. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    I just wish they'd move away from the ashigaru/samurai dichotomy. Since end of samurai era Japanese infantry have been a solid, disciplined and well trained force that conquered huge swathes of territory and engaged in multiple theatres of war, often with little air or armour support yet still achieved huge amounts.
     
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  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    You need to read the descriptions of the early Showa era again (late 1920s and early 1930s), when Japan went extremely militaristic and EVERYONE was expected to behave as if they were samurai. And even now there is a big split between their enlisted and officer ranks, where the enlisted are not treated well or as competent until they have 20 years service.

    And CB doubled down on the dichotomy with the Uprising fluff of the fucking kuge (who were stripped of their noble ranks and titles in 1947)...
     
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  20. RejjeN

    RejjeN Active Member

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    I'm not too read up on the fluff admittedly, but I Think it's a fairly reasonable assumption that former noble families could rise up to become major Corporation holders in the future as long as they had a decent economical situation when they lost their social rank.