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Pick Your Poison: MSV2 or Mimetism?

Discussion in 'Druze Bayram Security' started by oldGregg, May 1, 2018.

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Brawler MSV2 MULTI Sniper or Druze MULTI Sniper with Mimetism?

  1. Brawler with MSV2

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  2. Druze with Mimetism

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  3. Neither! I choose you, Armand le Muet!

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  1. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Which sniper would you take? Specifically, I have two upcoming games against Pan Oceania playing Transmission Matrix and Unmasking. I would be curious to hear your general arguments for either as well. @Q.A.I. has made some good points in the past.

    I've used the MSV2 and smoke trick to get a leg up on my opponent in the past, but I'm not sure how long I can keep making it work. (Last match we played was unmasking and I barely squeaked out a win - we both loved the mission).

    Its likely that I'll be facing a Dragao, if that helps any.
     
  2. Magonus

    Magonus Well-Known Member

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    Druze by a mile. You get the bonus +1 damage, but moreover, MSV2 will do nothing against a Dragao, but Mimetism will. That faction has no smoke, anyway, so on his turn, he's just going to shoot you with his BS15.

    (But the secret real winner against Acontecimento is the Druze E/M LGL:ok_hand:.)
     
  3. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Normally I like the MSV2 but if you know your opponent won't be using smoke I would probably stick with Mimetism.
     
  4. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    I have no experience of playing either unit, but voted for the Druze because with all things being equal, surely Multi-Spectral Visor L2 is more situational that CH: Mimetism?

    That is, I’d certainly love to have MSV for the times I might need to deal with smoke or camo, but I’d always love to apply a -3 MOD to my oppoenents BS rolls :smile:

    The only thing I would add is a note about meta-gaming. If you and I were playing games regularly, and you thought I was going to play a Drago, AND I knew you were undecided on MSV2 or Mimetism, I might well proxy the Drago model for a Cutter just for the look on your face if you'd played the Brawler :grin:
     
    #4 Wolf, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
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  5. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    In first tournaments I was using Brawler sniper and to be honest, the MSV rarely made a difference. It's hard to use it with Smoke in active turn, because only Saito can help (oh CB Lords give us some Yuans :P), and even against some Camo you gain a bit, BUT mimetism would also work.
    So in last tournaments I was using Druze with his Barrett (I like to imagine that he really has THE AP heavy sniper and I hope to convert mine to have a weapon of similar look). It's not like he won me all the games, but he made a few nice kills - against Specnaz for example in ARO. In my last game he also killed a Specnaz, so he becomes specialized in taking them out ;)
    Because even when faced against a guy with camo, in most cases the both units have to deal with negative modifiers.
    And the Druze sniper is a bit tougher, has veteran, viral pistol.

    So my vote goes for him :)
    [​IMG]

    PozdRawiam
     
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  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Every time I take the Druze I wished I had gone with the brawler, every time I get the brawler I wished I had the MSV....
     
  7. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    How many of you take the sniper and HMG? Do you put both in the link?
     
  8. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    The SMG in a link is also a good option and if you wanna go cheap there is also the Brawler HML!

    Personally I go for the MSV2 since it just adds another tool to the list. With Hunzakuts a Camo unit does add some of the Druze Snipers Power already.
     
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  9. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Given PanO's abundance of both TO Camo and MSV2, the Mimetism is a lot less useful than it would be in many matchups.

    Generally speaking, I still prefer the MSV2 because tactically it's really helpful to be able to deny smoke-tossers the game's most powerful rule. With an army that has no Minelayer and involves clustering 5-8 valuable 1-Wound models all in link range of one another, you can't risk a single Chain Rifle rushing into your DZ. MSV2 AROs help with that.
     
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  10. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    In general I think the Brawler is the safer choice for area denial AROs. It eliminates the issues of smoke and keeps mimetism/camo units from reducing its effectiveness. I don't leverage it for smoke tricks, and very rarely use it offensively. Even Albedo is pretty ineffective versus it if something needs to kill the Sniper to move other units, and White Noise is something I rarely run into.

    I don't dislike the Druze sniper, but it can get its ARO effectiveness dragged down by camo mods and smoke.

    If I can afford it and I am not running a TAG, my typical DBS fireteam includes HMG, EM nade, MSV-2 Brawler and the Clipper SML. It's solid area denial and a good firebase, especially with fireteam redundancy.
     
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  11. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    Also anecdotally, my one experience where I faced the Druze sniper on the other side of the table; I wrecked him with Le Muet.
     
  12. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    I think the Druze sniper is an active turn piece that can be a switch hitter into ARO, but is a bit expensive to walk in with ARO being its primary purpose. I like to keep mine hidden until my turn and ARO after I've knocked out my opponents "teeth".

    If i knew I was going up against PanO I'd take the brawler. I think the question should be HMG vs Sniper for active turn. I'm a bit more lenient towards running without MSV2 because I started out with HB, but it's a pretty nice tool to have.

    Edit: on second thought, going against PanO I'd be worried about TAGs too so I'd do a double sniper list with both. Brawler as my roadbumb and Druze as my heavy hitter.
     
  13. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    When you don’t bring the HMG, do you bring the SMR? Do you fit both snipers into the link?
     
  14. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    We have Le Muet Minelayer profile... :yum:
     
  15. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    Yeah, I'm going to have to try that profile out sometime.. I just always want the MSV-1 in DBS it seems, mainly because I'm usually giving up the MSV-2 brawler for the SWC to fit in Le Muet.

    There is no way to really confuse the mine with another camo token too, so it's obvious that it's a mine to any player who bothers to ask about the open info on Le Meut... that's doesn't make the mine useless, but it does take away any chance of a shell game.
     
  16. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    True, though 40+ points, 1.5 SWC and giving up the other useful profile is a big price to pay.
     
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  17. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention Le Muet doesn't link in a sectorial that is all about the core fireteam. I wan to field him, but feel like I would be giving up so much.
     
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  18. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's how I do it. I'm using the sniper more and more as my main attack piece. The HMG is a ton of fun and I'll probably trend back to it soon, but active turn lethality multi sniper in a link hits like a brick.

    I'll fit both snipers in a link but keep the MSR hidden. Its tempting to ARO with, but AROs die. You want him to stick around to kill things. After primary targets are dead or you've got your buttons pushed then he can switch to reactive
     
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  19. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    Le Muet is a tough commitment during list building, and one that most people avoid I think mainly because he's only B2 on the offensive. The thing is he is an additional attack vector completely capable of destroying some of the most annoying and capable ARO units out there Including TR bots and 5 man fireteams. I think most people are just convinced that all Snipers are exclusively static ARO units, and Le Muet is not a good investment as a dedicated ARO piece.

    I like to take him where his abilities work to make him a solid Datatracker option like in Rescue, Deadly Dance, Quad Control & other Dominate the ZO scenarios, etc. Also, I feel his forward deployment plays well with the rest of the deployment shenanigans DBS gets.

    Here is an example of a list I have used him in, it was the list I ran four times at Rumble. Taking Le Muet means sacrificing elsewhere, and I was concerned about not having a KHD with all of my repeaters, but it didn't become a problem for me.

    One thing I loved about this list was that it has all the alternative deployment units.

    [​IMG] #2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] VALERYA GROMOZ Hacker (Hacking Device UPGRADE: Expel) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (E/M and Nimbus) / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] DRUZE HMG, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] CLIPPER DRONBOT Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] ARMAND (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser, Antipersonel Mines / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 45)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 40)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] BASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)

    6 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  20. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if I agree with that. I know for a fact that isn't my opinion of snipers. My big thing is the fact that he can't link to increase burst in the active turn. Even a Haris option with the brawlers would be really cool and not very far-fetched.

    He does provide interesting opportunities outside your main link and I guess his tools may make the trade-off worth the cost. I will definitely run him in certain missions, at least a couple times.

    *I like that list and may use something like it in the future.
     
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