I'll agree on that, but we also need to keep in mind that, on CB's side, these figures are probably not the reason for the split. It's just an attempt at damage control for something that has been decided due to different reasons.
Again, Tigers come in the starter set. Skews the stats. Zhanshi also. Personally I still use Zhanshi semi frequently. Can't get a cheaper LT without paying SWC tax.
As Mc_Lane said, the Red Veil box distorts the %. Consider there is a Tiger in that box, with a ninja, a Hsien, a Terracotta and a trio of Zanshis.
Look at the Tiger again. That's an average of over 1 Tiger per list. That's a lot of lists with dual/trippel Tigers and a lot of lists with multiples of 60+ Hsien! I can't say much about how people make their lists, but that sounds like something's off.
The only way Su-Jans can be used as argument if we are talking about separation ISS from Yu-Jing because catformer is used a lot in both vanilla and ISS. Even better in ISS because of Kuang Shi link and occasional catformer duo.
If I'm interpreting the data correctly out of every 100 lists with a Hsien, only 2 of them bring 2 Hsien. My guess would that may be because Limited Insertion or some weird tournaments reporting stuff. The Tiger Soldier is more normal in my eyes. I'll often double up if I have 5 or more orders in group 2 on certain missions. Stuff like Transmission Matrix is gold for Tigers, no big heavy things for them to bounce off, deep objectives to stand on. A Spitfire and Boarding Shotgun split between two groups is pretty damn good on that mission.
This is a very important point that people often fail to recognise when quoting the statistics. What I've also noticed is that Vanilla Yu Jing players often only had a couple of JSA profiles each, but would use them somewhat often. Someone who bought an Aragoto box because they looked cool would certainly use them more often than the vanilla player who bought an Oniwaban instead. I believe that people play Vanilla for the variety and the combinations that they can find between different sectorials, and even use profiles that are less than optimal to see how they work together. Part of why Vanilla Yu Jing players are now hurting is that we've obviously lost a lot of this variety, and for now it feels like what we have is ISS+. Knauf you've hit the nail on the head. I have an issue with them telling us that we won't be affected by the split due to the statistics, when the statistics show just how many people will be affected. Anyone who's ever worked with statistical analysis will tell you that anything over 5% is a very significant chunk of the overall dataset. Honestly I'm not surprised that there are angry voices on this forum, but just imagine how many unhappy players there are saying similar things at their local stores.
I don't think you're interpreting that correctly. If Hsien had 1.00, you would have "for every 1 list without a Hsien, there is 1 list with double Hsien" That means a lot of Hsien. For the Tiger, I am saying that there's something weird that doesn't match up with my experience with playing with those. The single Tiger soldier will skew statistics, but it can not along skew it enough that you will have more than one Tiger per tournament list. Unlike the Hsien, I am just surprised that the Tiger is so popular, but for the Hsien I am very surprised that we're seeing so bloody many. I think for a proper look at what skew does, you'd need to look at the Zhanying whom is very unpopular in vanilla but still manages 16% participation based off of one single model released with the ISS Starter. No, the Hsien and Tiger are both significantly more popular than the skew would make them.
There was no genocide and as the blog article showed somehow the biggest chunk of Japanese are still alive, admittedly under a ISS police state surveillance, in the Setang, if Yu Jing wanted genocide they failed dramatically, some posters wanted to see genocide in the quote and are not willing to see anything else. There are way more detailed stats even to what load-out is used, you do not expect that much of a detail in an seminar section whose purpose is to show that CB took into account units usage before taking the decision, to split them from Vanilla Yu Jing. Edit It is Infinity army lists not just tournament lists of the approximately last 2 years shown, so casual and experimental lists are probably also included in as long as they were saved I think.
I think that number is how many of unit X per list that brings unit X to give you the average number per list that uses them. Look at Kitsune and Asuka, they're 1. They're characters, you can only ever bring one so the average will always be a perfect 1. So if you had 2 vanilla lists, and 3 Hsien between them. Then you have an average of 1.5 Hsien per list. If you have 100 lists, and 102 Hsien between them, you get an average of 1.02 Hsien per list, or 2 lists that bring 2 Hsien, the other 98 lists use 1. Tiger Soldiers 1.16 average means majority of players using them only brought 1 at a time. Compared to the Kuang Shi that average 3.39 per list that uses them.
Might be communication issues? Mass graves is synonymous with genocide for a lot of people, even though the UN-specified threshold for a genocide has nothing to do with graves at all. You're probably right. Bostria mentions that "in every list of yu ching, there is 2.3 zhanshi", but it does sound and look like the marking on the right is "for every list containing one, there is an average of X" (and I can only assume that Mercs setting is messing Armand up)
Well when you bomb an apartment building because the mutineers are shooting your forces from there it is a "mass grave" of civilians regrettable, but for some an acceptable collateral damage. The agent is accusing Japanese civilians of bringing this to themselves by allying with the mutineers, instead of fleeing the area of operations, he probably is overtly dramatic in what he says and uses it for psychological warfare to bring the civilians out. Fact is as per the article Setang is still populated with Japanese so Yu Jing did not go to some genocidal cleaning and most japanese did not flee Setang and most importantly for Yu Jing the Japanese are their people, they view Japan as a traitorous part of their population not as another nation.
Honestly I've never seen anybody use Armand so I'm actually not sure on that one. Model's ugly as shit IMO big reason why I've never had any interest in him.
He's also failing to blame the mass graves on the JSA forces, though. Minor point is that bombing an apartment building doesn't make for a mass grave. Mass graves are what happens when there is no one around to care for the dead, to dig through the rubble, to identify the bodies. When forces kill all people of a village or town, putting them in mass graves to prevent spread of diseases. Or ditto all POWs. Speaking of mass graves implies that anyone left to care about burying the bodies has also been killed. Potentially, a sufficiently heavily enforced draconian curfew might prevent proper burials, thus necessitating mass graves, but that'd also imply that the rebellion was a whole lot less successful than we've been lead to believe so far (at least those of us who haven't got the book yet) I use him a lot, as in basically all my vanilla lists (it's the only model with higher use percentage for me than Keisotsu or Guilang). I prefer the general release model over the winner pack model.
I'm not sure if it's better or worse if they were only using lists that were played in tournaments to be honest... On the one hand it would be a much smaller sample size to use the tournament lists on the other those lists are arguably the most likely to show a trend, and given that the game is balanced around ITS, they would be the most important ... But if experimental lists that are never even played are also considered, then we're going down a rabbit hole considering CB say they use the data(combined with sales) to decide releases, rebalances and updates... I don't think that the data brought up here was in any way the reason for the split either way though, I feel like this was always part of the fluff from the beginning, the data is basically just something that didn't stand against making the split now...
That doesn't sound right at all, it wouldn't make any sense if they did that. Any illegal list can be saved in there. Hell you can save lists with 30 Ghazi in them and stupid crap like that. I've saved lists like those that while testing how OTM was allowing certain illegal lists to be submitted to tournaments https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/otm-allowing-illegal-lists-to-be-submitted-ghazi.1422/ If CB truly is using any saved list and not tournament data then they're even dumber than I thought and none of this data is relevant at all.
Well, they can't use data that they don't have... and I know personally that I've had kicks and grins lists saved to my ITS profile that I'd never consider using in a tourney... and the data more than likely simply showed that now was as good a time as any to move forward with the Uprising.
The point remains that lists saved don't represent lists (or models) actually used. I've saved lists with Guijia, but I've never put a Guijia on the table. I don't own any nomads or CA, but sometimes I save a nomad or CA list when I'm spitballing ideas. To take those as actual representative data would be a monumentally stupid idea.
Considering lists are still not mandatory - and there is more to infinity than tournaments it would be a very bad idea to limit it to just those lists.
