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Non-shitpost discussion of white banner

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by csjarrat, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    So we've got a pretty funny thread from a shit post point of view but not seeing much from a real discussion POV. What's the feeling from the forumites on our newest addition?
    It seems *fine * to me, the defensive jammer link might be OK for holding some ground, but it's not like people can't already destroy 5 man link teams well enough after several editions and some purpose built tools so they're OK I guess, the rest of the stuff seems fine but not seeing anything too broken.
    A few 'meh' bits like the MI teams, hoping MI gets an overhaul to make them more relevant.
    Where are you guys at? Anyone got any game experience with them yet?
     
    RobertShepherd and Henshini like this.
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think the saving grace from a game play perspective is how much bloat they actually attached to the Tian Gou. If it wasn't fairly sub-optimal, but instead was more like a Ghulam Spec Ops (i.e. stats and price similar to a Yisheng) in terms or gear and price it'd have been truly bonkers, so this is quite simply the least optimised of the 4 Jammers so far.

    That said, I'm having some serious problems getting lists that feel "viable" that contains Jujak. Ye Mao is an odd list building vector in how terrain dependent they are where most Yu Jing players have been designing with opponent or mission considerations previously and so far I've had maybe three games in TTS where a Ye Mao Haris would've given me some pretty hefty advantages with the ML as the unusual hero of the Haris (mostly for lack of HRL, Sniper, or HMG). Simply put, a Ye Mao ML who can find themselves in the 32-40" rangeband is quite fearsome foe leaping up over billboards, shrubs, etc, and can easily surprise a LT hiding on the roof of a building with suddenly gaining LOF (small note: the loss of cover means that the AP Spitfire is less capable of doing this effectively considering it operates in a very common rangeband)

    Anyway, my take away so far is I need to learn to be more aggressive with ARO pieces. It's more important than for vanilla or IA to challenge LGLs from getting too close to the Core.
     
    Savnock likes this.
  3. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    Long post!

    I have played 4 games with WBA in TTS and tried to test as many units and combinations as possible. I won't stop because of the virus giving me a lot more time to play. Before futher overview I just want to point out that the lists I played with were not meant to be the most optimal ones. They were made to test capabilites. I will point out pros and cons that I encountered for each list. Note that they could be exist due to my luck, misplay or whatever really.

    game 1 vs SWF (Safe Area)
    The White Banner Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 42)
    TIAN GǑU (1st Section) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Jammer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    TIAN GǑU (2st Section) Hacker (Killer Hacking Device, Holoprojector L2) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, MadTraps / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    LIANG KAI Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    LÓNG YÁ 2 Panzerfaust, Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse. (0 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    TIGER SOLDIER Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    HÙNDÙN (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 26)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    This was my first game with WBA so I could take anything and still feel that I'm playing something new and also I won so tere will be more pros because of my sujective biased opinion :*
    Pros:
    + HRL Shang ji can do a "decent" job at securing crucial firelanes
    + Guilang is still good (surprise surprise)
    + Tiger soldier SWC cost can be easily concealed and I managed to catch my opponent completely off guard in my 2nd turn.
    + Long ya killing ARO ORC feuerbach in 5 man link team with his 2x panzerfaust. It is really nasty
    + Hundun makes life hard when you have to deal with 1 hrl knowing that the second one is just waiting for your mistake
    Cons:
    - Saying that shang ji and zhanshis links are decent really shows how medicore ft core options really are
    - Complete lack of way to deal with long range ARO (ORC feuerbach + fusi sniper) apart from Tiger when he has a spot to drop. That shot with long ya was more yolo try than anything else (but it worked)

    game 2 vs Ariadna (Firefight)
    The White Banner Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 42)
    LÉI GŌNG Shock Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser, Blitzen / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    TIAN GǑU (1st Section) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Jammer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    JING QO MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, AP+DA CC Weapon. (0 | 39)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    HÙNDÙN (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 26)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    I didn't know the mission nor my opponents army. Typical camo spam with most of ariadna good stuff. I lost and I think it is because my opponent was simply a better player with a list more suited to fight this mission. Rolls were slightly in my favor.
    Pros:
    + Jing Qo made both classifieds, tanked a mine and killed Plushenko (I wasn't sure about her but this performance was really good)
    + chaiyi locking half the table and succeding in every ftf roll.
    + Rui shi is still vey threatening to camo spam
    Cons:
    - That link team is still meh but this time with dying to spetsnaz flavour
    - Very few living minesweepers. Madtraps tian gou would be a godsend
    - No long range active beatstick
    - remotes are good but die miserably to impact templates
    - all possible msv camo hunters really don't want to run into dense midfield where everything could be a mine of chasseur.

    game 3 vs O-12 (Looting and sabotaging)
    The White Banner Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    YĚ MĀO AP Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    YĚ MĀO Engineer MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
    TIAN GǑU (1st Section) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Jammer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 42)
    QIANG GĀO (Lieutenant L2) HMG, Nanopulser / 2 x Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1 | 43)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    LIANG KAI Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 22)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    LÓNG YÁ 2 Panzerfaust, Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse. (0 | 20)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    After both of us finished the 1st turn, I realized how much I hate this mission. When you have only 2 models in your army that can reliably destroy the antenna it can be very frustrating. So the game was a defensive lockdown with the resault decided with my liang kai failing to take loot from the box and O-12 liang kai succeeded. To be fair opponent also secured my hvt but with his very last order.
    Pros:
    + Link finally has some firepower
    + Jammer + long ya can very effectively lock my antenna
    + Spitfire helps to advance other pieces up the table and can open unexpected firelanes
    + Having Jammer with granades on the rooftop on the edge of enemy dz is hillarious
    + Lobbing granades on REMs and Katherine while jamming everything that tries to get close feels good
    Cons:
    - HMG LT without CoC is a bad idea. Don't try it at home
    - Ye Maos evaporate as soon as something looks at them
    - Liang is cool and all but he is no achilles nor mcmurder
    - Linkteam has serious problems with ODD attackers (omega hmg)
    - Linkteam has serious problems when something outranges its main ARO piece (lynx sniper)
    - Liinkteam has serious problems with reliably taking fight to the enemy

    game 4 and final (bear with me) vs SWF (supplies)
    The White Banner Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    BLUE WOLF AP Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower, Akrylat-Kanone / DA CC Weapon. (2 | 89)
    [​IMG] BLUE WOLF PILOT Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    TIAN GǑU (1st Section) Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    ZHANSHI Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 16)
    ZHANSHI Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 16)
    ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    TIAN GǑU (1st Section) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Jammer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    LÓNG YÁ 2 Panzerfaust, Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse. (0 | 20)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    I have little to no experience playing TAGs. I had 2 tries nin the past. This became obvious when I deployed blue wolf to be butchered by KoJ ML. The game was over after my bottom of 1st turn nwhen there was no way to move anything.
    Pros:
    + When this list is given 1st turn, I guess it can be decent
    + I can finally stop forcing myself to play TAGs (probably would still buy the mini if it's cool enough)
    Cons:
    - Linkteam suffers when anything comes closer than 24"
    - Vanilla can run TAGs better (kuang shis + daoying)
    - While Guijia is terrible, Blue Wolf is "situationally ok". Our HIs are much better and cheaper. I don't get the niche where he excels. Su Jian is: cheaper, faster, can go prone, better at dodging, has no pilot to be ejected, climbing+, smaller, this is getting ridicolous and only loses 1b in active and AP. Yes specialist pilot, that I never managed to use as a specialist. Nah thanks.
    -LT is nearly alvays obvious or one of 2 base zhanshis in likn while 1 being a jammer
    -again Blue Wolf is the only thing to win ftf against link teams.

    So to sum everything up:
    Pros:
    + Long live the Long Ya
    + Guilang good
    + Tiger Soldier good
    + Hundun is interesting. I still want to try SMMR version
    + shitload of direct templates
    + You can camospam all you want
    + Relatively hackerproof even when fielding many hackable targets
    Cons:
    - 14orders is a limit of not feeling like taking a ton of crap order generators
    - fireteam core...
    - Jammer guy is ok but the only time I jammed anything or felt that opponent has a problem with it was when I parked him in his dz. Still a good model but not deserving all this hype/criticism in my opinion. Good option. Nothing less and nothing more.
    - fireteam haris of ye maos is fragile as hell
    - Did I mention bad fireteams?
    - Vanilla also can do it all but better
    - ava 4 zhanshi
    - higher ava on some unist is interesting but is viable only in troll lists like all camo list
    - Best pieces don't really gain anything from being in a sectorial

    So it is an interesting sectorial. Not OP not bad. It can field some good compositions but from strictly "competetive" perspective I feel that vanilla can do better (and ISS for me but maybe because I am familliar with them). I will still test it and whan I notice something interesting I'll let you know.
     
    #3 Furiat, Apr 18, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  4. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    Played against it a couple times on TTS. My friend really like them and I think they definitely are fun. My friend has been having some good luck with the blue wolf tag.
     
  5. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    My White Banner Lists building mostly goes something like this:
    - Long Ya, RuiShi, Flashbots
    - Hacker to Buff RuiShi/LongYa
    - Engineer to fix RuiShi/LongYa
    - Monks for Smoke
    - 4 Zhanshis + big gun and optional jammer, most often the LT too
    - Doc to fix big gun
    - 1+ Guilang

    The Hacker almost never fits perfectly and feels like a tax.
    The LT is the same, I mostly end up using Zhanshis.
    The core link is expensive and takes much breathing room, but has quite some punch.
    I feel the need to bring Doc + Engineer to heal up all those bots and 2W Attack pieces.

    Apart from that, they are flexibel enough to do all missions, but they never feel overpowered (which is a good thing)
    i.e., in IA, its very painful to do Looting and Sabotage mission.
     
    Savnock and Furiat like this.
  6. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    So true, let me know if you ever come up with a solution.
     
  7. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Well, LI/HI gunboats are amongst the best fireteam archetype ATM. If anything it just shows how good everything else is, as a sectorial I'd say white banner is only second to shasvastiis when it comes to the quality of its solo units and building lists around them.

    Anyway. I've Played 2 games with White Banner on TTS so far, both against Winter Force.
    First one's battle report can be found here. I was trying something with a bunch of camo and a """defensive""" fireteam, but I've yet to learn how to play camo heavy lists so it went poorly. 6 years playing mostly ISS and IA didn't help in that matter, I'll need a bit more practice.
    Second game was on armory, so obviously I fielded a bunch of monks and Liang Kai:

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    QIANG GĀO HMG, Nanopulser / 2 x Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 43)
    TIAN GǑU (1st Section) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Jammer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZHANSHI Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 16)
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    LÓNG YÁ 2 Panzerfaust, Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse. (0 | 20)
    GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]4
    JING QO MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, AP+DA CC Weapon. (0 | 39)
    LIANG KAI Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    As is often the case with this mission, it was 2 turns of Kill them all with some door opening, followed by a mad rush to the armory in the very last turn. I was playing second, so I knew I'd have the last word for armory control and really just needed to clear some chaff to let Jing Qo do her job.

    First 2 turns were spent trading blows with a Varghar core () and Hospitalier Haris, with Liang Kai failing to open the armory door and then going full Neo 'till he got crit with shock ammo by the Knight Lieutenant, who then got rui-shi'ed. In his last turn he was in LoL, and my unlinked, out of cover, in bad range zhanshi ML who had oppened my door got a lucky crit on his Knight HMG, which basically won me the game (jing qo just had to move into the armory under smoke cover to control it)
    I've misplayed Liang Kai though, I could have sworn he had Kinematika L2 but he has only L1 which might have been relevant considering he had to expose his lieutenant just to get him after I danced around a bit. Not sure if the 1" really changed something or not really.

    Note#1: K1 rifles are hilariously good at destroying doors.
    Note#2: Total cover isn't as total as you think it is against bastards with good vertical mobility, like the varghars. Lost my guilang and a monks because of that, like a rookie.


    So, my first impressions on WB:

    First the big bad wolf. I'm still on the fence about the whole linked jammer thing, it has yet to do anything in my games. While it is theoretically broken, in practice it's not as simple because you still need to park him where he'll annoy your opponent the most, and that means finding a spot where you can hide the whole fireteam core as well. So its "brokeness" really depends of the board + mission combo, wether or not your opponent has stuff to stop your core team from going wherever it wants, and wether or not he has stuff to dislodge them once they're parked. It'll definitely be auto-include and rage-inducing in missions like looting&sabotaging/capture&protect, but otherwise I might actually swap him for a zhanshi + 2 more monks and a warcor.

    The jammer put aside, the sectorial as a whole is definitely very well rounded. Lots of viable choices and options when it comes to list building, though some of them are a little harder to fit (Ye Maos and Jujiaks for instance). Direct firepower can be an issue though. I expect Qiang gao's gunboat to find its way in most lists as the reliable and cost-effective brute force option, à la Kazak fireteam, to deal with MSV2 AROs.
     
  8. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    I have to agree. It shows how good other sectorials link teams are. Solo pieces are very viable but that hrl coverage doesn't make up for vanilla variety.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Outside of the fact that for whatever fucking stupid reason the Zhanshi are AVA4 and the Zhanshi doc/engi aren't Zhanshi for link purposes and you're forced to wildcard to fill your defensive links I think the linking jammer is going to be more obnoxious in an offensive link that's pushing up the table and heavily limit attack vectors such as hackers against them.

    But as it stands right now because the Shang Ji/Jujak link seems to be highly questionable it doesn't really look like that's going to happen much until Shang Ji finally hopefully get an unfucked reworked profile in N4.

    Probably the most mileage we'll see right now out of the linking jammer ambushing people is in something like the Yemao haris when it pushes up the table.
     
  10. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    The Zhanshi Core with either Quing Gao HMG or ShanJi HRL feels a little bit like the YanHuo HRMC and Neu ML.
    Both are very powerful, but slow and clumsy and once your opponents knows how to ignore them, they never gonna get kills in.
    The link is more expensive, but provides some of the cheaper orders of the sectorial.
     
  11. Gero

    Gero Well-Known Member

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    My experience:

    Ye Mao Haris is best Haris, I don’t play them as ARO pieces thanks to the Bao which taught me this no longer works in the game.

    I also don’t super-jump with them, treat this as a mobility thing, not a quake rocket launcher spam thing, Rodoks do this better merely by being in a Fireteam Core.

    But as an Active Turn punch the AP Spitfire with Mimetism and MSV1 really shines, beware templates though, remember they are MI so you can use bravery.

    Long Ya is awesome.

    Fireteam Core works as a defensive Fireteam, and Lieutenant Bunker, Include Qiang Gao and the Zhanshi SWC of your choice (sniper or ML), and as long as you can overlap their shots along with Long Ya (in case you need to ARO with it) can shut down a lot of movement....which brings us to the next thing...

    Pangguling Evo Hacker is best Support Hacker in this Sectorial, we have AVA 2 of Chaiyis, Rui Shi, Monks and Lu Duan still have their job cut out for them quite nicely.

    Pangguling makes it possible to Overclock Chaiyis, Rui Shis and Lu Duans (along with other remotes you brought) to effectively double ARO power when going Second, furthermore it helps our Tigers!

    ARO capabilities, in Yu Jing? More likely than you can expect.

    Hundun: for 26 points this guy is Nasty af! Loving him Already and will love him even more when he gets Hidden Deployment, as it Stands Hun Dun are decent ARO pieces (specially against Linkteams moving in Reactive turn).

    For a Sectorial with (so far) little HI viability, we can put out a decent repeater network thanks to remotes, Guilang, and of course our many killer hackers in this one (we have like 3 of them right???).

    For Missions Focusing on Defense or Going Second, White banner has some nasty tricks up their sleeves.

    Add Guilangs and Tigers on top of every list, just do it.

    Units I haven’t taken milage out of yet are:
    Jing Qo, Liang Kai, Jujak, Daofei (I know), Adil and Lei Gong.
     
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  12. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    The 17 points of bloat and tax on a Zhanshi missile turret just kills this army for me. And if I want to run Shang Ji and Lei Gong in every list, IA is the better army for it because of the Haidao sniper.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I feel like if you are basing the effectiveness of this sectorial around the defensive link team you are failing to consider the many strengths that it has to offer whilst overlooking the drawbacks to relying on an expensive MSV2 sniper as your ARO presence.
     
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  14. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Other factions get strong, cheap defensive links and then offer many strengths. Without taking advantage of fireteams this sectorial has very little to offer over vanilla. The links just aren't that great.
     
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  15. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I have some good news for you. A zanshi missile launcher costs 16pts.

    (Unless you meant 'my fireteam of line troops costs very slightly more than some other fireteams of line troops', in which case I apologise and cannot help you)
     
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  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    In terms of the sectorial at large, if anyone wants to listen through two hours of australian and new zealand accents my thoughts on White Banner were covered pretty thoroughly in the White Noise epsiode here.

    Since we recorded, I've settled back into Vanilla YJ (but with White Banner new toys) as my preferred Yu Jing army, but White Banner remains a close second. Just apart form the usefulness of Ye Mao fireteams and the chonker firepower of the Quing Gao, there's a few niche AVA advantages like the Rui shi and monks that are interesting. Also jammers. A 1st Div tian gao is a bit too expensive for me to often use in vanilla but as a link wildcard it's much more affordable (and effectively force-multiplied, even just in 3-man teams). It's nice for some missions, just ok for others.

    Liang Kai remains a highly affordable monster in both armies. Last game with him, he killed something like six times his points and survived to game end.
     
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  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Yes a couple of other factions get better defensive links, but keep in mind those 2 offenders also suffer drawbacks elsewhere it's not all just gravy for them. VIRD and OSS may have the two most obnoxious defensive links in the game that are far superior to a zhanshi defensive link, on the other hand amongst other things they also don't get access to a 5pt warbands that throw smoke or any smoke at all in fact. Pros and Cons here.

    AVA4 Guilangs combined with links in general is enough to justify WB instead of vanilla. Personally I think people are seriously sleeping on the Jing Quo duo. That duo has big potential.
     
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  18. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    If you get a chance to play with it, I'd be really interested in hearing about your experiences.
     
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it's entirely possible that N3 passes before the gaming group gets together again at this point thanks to circumstances.
     
  20. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    TTS is producing some really good experiences for people if you're interested in that as an alternative.
     
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