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New to Infinity looking at JSA

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by OCEE78, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. Mcgreag

    Mcgreag Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a fine list, personally I would replace the doctor+bot with a keisotsu hacker to boost the Rui Shi or engineer to repair it.

    I don't feel there are enough targets that will be close to your dz and worth doctoring.
     
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  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Saw that you already won, congrats! Here's some feedback that still might be relevant (or maybe things you've already noticed).

    No reason for that many Keisotsu in group 1 if they're only there to buff the Kempei, though you may want to swap one for a hacker for access to Assisted Fire. You can use the leftover point to make one Keisotsu an FO. I'd also swap the Ninja KHD and Doctor (may honestly be worth swapping the doc to the engineer) to group 2 for the Aragoto KHD and maybe the Aragoto BSG? That gives you an extra order for Shinobu and mean your doctor isn't taking orders out of your primary group if you're forced to use them.
     
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  3. OCEE78

    OCEE78 Member

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    Hey guys, I have read up on JSA tactica etc. But I was hoping for some more clarification on how to use Tanko. How often, when and why do you take them? When you do take them how do you use them? This in some way extends to Domaru, as I have recently acquired Neko, and I have no real clue on how to effectively use him.

    I have often found myself relying to heavily on Kempetai fireteam as my main attack piece, and I am very aware I am playing JSA wrong. I do not use my TO camo units barely at all, as I am far to concerned about losing them. The irony of it.
     
  4. AkiPL

    AkiPL Member

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    Well... for me Tankos are mostly add-on to Domaru Core Link... they bring some long range ARO (Missile Launcher) and allow to compose this link cheaper (Tanko is 23pts)

    Usually, mine is something like this:
    Japanese Secessionist Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]5 [​IMG]3
    OYAMA Lieutenant Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28)
    DOMARU Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 39)
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    TANKŌ Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    TANKŌ Flammenspeer, Contender / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    3.5 SWC | 145 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    They can be used in Musashi Haris as well, but I never used them this way so far.
     
  5. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I take Tanko when I am playing Ikari.


    I rely on the Kempei Shock MMR as a backup shooting piece. Usually the Rui Shi and Oniwaban get most of the orders, but if one goes down the Kempei can be semi-reliable in a gunfight against softer targets.

    You really shouldn't be concerned about losing TO pieces, they're much more survivable than you might think. Remember that in marker state they need to be discovered to get shot (generally) -- which means for most units, they're either going to burn a lot of orders discovering you safely, or they fail the discover and can't discover you with the same unit again that turn. And they have to do all of that while worrying about you popping out with a BSG when they can't afford you to.

    Between marker state and the -6 mod from TO, you'll find that Oniwaban are still about as survivable as your non-Shikami HI.
     
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  6. Camden Leisure Pirate

    Camden Leisure Pirate Best of the best of what's left

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    @OCEE78 I have had success using Tanko with flamenspeers solo on the flanks ready to capitalise on any enemy that stray into any limited fire lanes I can set up in, they can also be good for clearing mines or trading against tough pieces (dmg15 with fire is no joke) with their impetuous order before my rui shi or kuroshi push up, their bs combined with the contenders DA and range bands is surprisingly effective against shorter range cammo/TO hunting, for the price they can actually end up being quite the effective Rambo.

    I have run the kempei link a few times but find deploying it for any real effective support fire difficult but that's mostly down to the tables I play, this has led me to start developing a taste for cherry picking profiles that mutually support each other and have clear roles rather than taking filler/cheerleaders and utilizing the fireteam bonuses to enhance cheap swc profiles or move smaller teams of super heroes, especially in LI to support a more aggressive first turn strategy as most games favour going second and I always plan on losing the pre game roll so denying that command token order drain is sensible.

    I've yet to try the karakuri mk12 but it's clear it's a powerful piece even on it's own and I think it will support my approach to JSA. Hoping to try this out this week in an LI list for counter measures.

    Overall I'm having great fun exploring JSA and can't see that fading any time soon.
     
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  7. Camden Leisure Pirate

    Camden Leisure Pirate Best of the best of what's left

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    Also don't forget to use blast mode on the flamenspeers against stuff in cover to mitigate the +3 arm.. I might have done that.
     
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  8. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
    Warcor

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    It’s great reading about new JSA players’ experiences.

    Way to keep the excitement rolling!

    As for the Tanko core, the Tanko missile is a very strong ARO when linked. It can be worthwhile to keep a medic nearby to heal him when he inevitably gets torn up by something with visual mods (his primary weakness.)

    More than my other armies, I find that JSA need to build their lists with the mission in mind. So many of their choices just don’t translate to certain missions. For instance, I’m probably using Shikami only in heavy specialist missions, or with Zone scoring and I definitely want Saito for Looting and Sabotage. These are both expensive units that you need to build around.

    But yeah, NCO on the Daiyokai has given him the edge he needed. I love him as a data tracker when the data tracker gets an extra order. :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. OCEE78

    OCEE78 Member

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    I'm stuck between Ikari and IA, have some time to think as I am focusing on getting my JSA mostly finished.

    Hey bud! I have been using the Oniwaban with Shotgun to great effect after reading this, I just go ham with him as soon as a relatively good chance appears, he is unbelievable. I was always having trouble before with getting rid of dug in profiles etc, he clears out sections of the board with relative ease, so that my mid range units can push up with relative ease, love him. He is an auto include now. Shinobu doesnt seem like an upgrade also, I love Shotguns to much. I have been relying far less on the fireteam, I usually push an objective with it turn 3, an cover aros.

    Thanks!

    Thanks of the info bud. I am having trouble finding a spot for Tankos, as honestly I am not a fan of running big point fireteams, I get far to concerned about moving them. Although I have started playing around with Dayokai and Domaru haris team, which honestly is quite nice, it has very good board presence and isnt all that expensive for how strong it is.

    Nice tip on the tanko flammenspear!

    Thanks for the tips on missions etc. I love Saito as an idea, but am yet to properly make use of him, I find ninjas in general quite lacklustre which is a massive shame. They should be far more able to be tricky etc, I dunno, I am not very good so there is that! Shikami looks like a super fun model, I bought one recently to give him a try, and Neko who had a run out tonight. He managed to stay alive and kept things from going near him so missions accomplished?

    Thanks for the tips and support!
     
  10. OCEE78

    OCEE78 Member

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    So I have had a little more experience with Oniwabans and I love them. The Shinobu has grown on massively, she is definitely serving a different purpose than the Boarding shotgun Oniwaban I use. I find her Combi Rifle pretty useful when behind enemy lines, which surprised me, the free shots from behind outside of 8" have given me chances to build on a opening in the line she has made in CC, but, I am no expert, so just some rookie thoughts! I can see the synergy with Shinobu and Rui Shi but am yet to use it effectively, I am finding using a smoke is a last resort(on shinobu).

    However, I am struggling to use Yojimbo, his use past the initial smokes through impetuous often leave me doing nothing with him. I just prefer to prioritise more interesting things, I also have him in the second group if I do take, so not too many orders free. Tankos and Domaru also are difficult, the amount of orders to get them into a position to do what they do best seems very difficult, I certainly need more practice with them. Lastly Aragoto, I find them brilliant for their price, and even in games where they die and do nothing or very little, I find them very useful, I think I am having some bad luck more than anything, as I can feel how great they are at creating a difficult presence.

    Edit: I would be very interested to see some of your guys favorite lists with JSA, and a brief rundown of how you like to play it. Would love to hear experienced players approaches.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't use Yojimbo for the simple reason that bikes die whenever I command them, but from observing others use him my general advice is; either use him as a smoke source close to base and for home field deterrence, Impetuous forward, smoke, move back, or you use him aggressively to create attack paths, pre-smoke anywhere there might be TO troopers waiting for an opportunity (he's a fairly high value target for TO snipers). Even if moving him fairly cautiously you can be in your opponent's DZ in less than half your pool.

    Other than that, he's like Claptrap. He's got Vulnerability: Ladders
     
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  12. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer

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    Don't forget that he's a beast in CC (MA4 and CC24 - you can get 27 CC score...it's massive), with NWI for some resilience (provided you don't run against Shock) you can blast through the field popping smoke to deny LoFs and get in b2b with fairly juicy opponents and turn them into mincemeat. Koalas are also good as sac outlets to mines and other middlefield unplesantries of such kind. Also, in stand-by or with Yojimbo around, they do a good job of limiting the actions of Camo Markers, by parking the Koalas into the ZoC of the camo trooper. Yojimbo is very flexible, you can use it as support, or as a missile if need be.
    If survivability is in dire need one trick you can do (with bikes in general), is park the bike sideways, dismount it and go prone behind it. There, you just made total cover out of thin air.

    Lists are difficult to recommend, because a list needs a purpose. Is it for an ITS mission, is it just for a fluff theme, meme list, casual games, etc...? There isn't one list that can be recommended without specifying the purpose. But there's a few core strategies and tactics that you can make lists around - the one you mentioned Shinobu+Rui Shi, is one such tactic -, for example, but then you'd need to tailor them to the purpose.
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Congrats!


    As @Ashtaroth said, that can be pretty difficult, as lists really change based on what you're doing.

    My usual example of beatsticking is one I call the Samuria 7 (yes, inspired by the anime):
    Samurai Seven
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4
    OYAMA Lieutenant Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28)
    DOMARU Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 39)
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    TANKŌ Flammenspeer, Contender / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    TANKŌ Blitzen, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    O-YOROI AP HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas / EXP CCW. (2 | 86)
    [​IMG] O-YOROI PILOT Contender / Pistol, CCW. ()
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This is a straight-up beatstick list, 3 specialists is barely enough to function. Hacker pops Fairy dust while the DoTanko Fireteam and O-Yoroi advance. Yojimbo gives smoke cover to whoever is across from the HMG and ML. Doc and Engineer hide in the back. The O-Yoroi will probably draw more fire than the fireteam, but the fireteam is your main strength. Try to bait someone to move into LoF of the TAG and the fireteam at the same time.
     
  14. OCEE78

    OCEE78 Member

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    @Section9 thanks bud! I have seen this list before and it looks supppper fun. Going to give it a go tomorrow.

    Quick question regarding the MLs. Am I right in saying that if ML loses the FTF whatever else would be in the weapons template will still have to dodge etc? Even though the initial hit against the ARO target failed.

    Also, I noticed on the Domaru Special fireteam subsection on infinity army maker, it says 2 Domaru + Daiyokai and 1 Domaru Haris + Karakuri. Does that mean I dont have to take a haris profile with a Daiyokai but do for the Karakuri Haris?

    Thanks again for that list, Ive been wanting something I can run the Tanko in that is legitimately good. I find them hard to fit in.
     
  15. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it, an attack only fails if you've rolled higher than the target number. Any time your hit succeeds, your opponent needs to beat it with their face to face. So, in this case, the splash damage of the template needs a face to face roll to avoid making saves...
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    When you declare, you place the template. When it becomes time to roll, any model that has touched the template during the order will be affected by your attack(s). Whatever they do that forces a face to face roll versus BS Attacks will also result in FTF versus your ML roll(s). You roll one die per Burst, and compare your result against ALL enemy FTF, each one you win that trooper takes damage, each you lose they dodge (or, in case of them shooting you, you get to roll ARM/BTS).

    This is one of the most complicated interactions for newcomers.
     
  17. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    You always need someone with the Haris skill to form a Haris. I think the only spelled the one out in the case of the Karakuris is to make it clear the you need thr Tanko with the Haris skill, not the Karakuri.
     
  18. Demotron

    Demotron Member

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    @Section9
    What in turn is based on a classic Kurosawa’s film. :+1: