Musashi Haris

It actually seems ludicrously flexible to be, though I'd be tempted to leave the Missile Launcher at home.

The disposable launchers and contender are great for AROs, the SMG is great for close assault, and Musashi is fantastic with WIP15 burst 2 flash pulse and DTW.

In CC they're disgusting though, burst 3 EXP+AP or Mono is insane.

 

Yeah, I went with the with Mushashi, the ML, and the SMG/Blitzen.
I figure it provides options to all the various range band, the SMG also provides Shock.

That and I love the Blitzen when all of a sudden.... the Avatar

 

Nothing too serious, but partial incompatibility of gang-up bonuses with MA5 makes itself known.

Not that it would be a commonly arising situation even if you were actively trying to force it though.

 

I run a ML+SMG+Musashi Haris Team.
I ended using only the ML Tanko. And i felt bad about it. Having Musashi to just babysit the Tanko is a waste.

 

MA5 is more of a defensive skill/best with Surprise Attack for mod stacking.

MA3 is more useful if you're getting +2B from ganging up.

 

MA5 is funky when Shinobu and Mushashi are fighting each other, but Mushashi has more use for MA5 in general compared to Shinobu if I recall correctly. Shinobu will typically use MA3 vs non-Mushashi skilled fighters and MA4 versus non-skilled fighters where Hsien (CC19+MA1) is sort of a break-even point between skilled and incompetent.

From earlier theory crafting, the Core:d Tanko ML is the strongest ARO and active turn ranged attack JSA has access to, rivalled only by an O-Yoroi or supportwared Rui Shi/Husong (but firmly beating them). I'm not sure a Haris:ed Tanko ML can quite do the same when trying to take care of TR HMGs... would probably have to find other ways of taking care of those little robotic buggers.

 

Kitsune should use MA5 every f-time she use Surprise Attack. Imposing a -12 while you still get a +5 is simply too much. Even against a skilled fighter, a -9 vs +2 is still a bonus you cannot refuse to use

 

Achilles (MA3, EXP CCW).
MA5: 50 vs 20
MA3: 56 vs 19

Myrmidons (MA3, AP CCW):
MA5: 60 vs 10
MA4: 66 vs 11
MA3: 62 vs 9

Kanren (MA1, Mono CCW):
MA5: 61 vs 5
MA4: 77 vs 6
MA3: 67 vs 5

Shinobu (MA5*, Mono CCW)
MA5: 44 vs 16
MA3: 49 vs 16

* When Shinobu surprise attacks Shinobu, the attacking Shinobu should use MA3 while the defending Shinobu should use MA5.

 

I was always under impression that the main point of MA5 was to not die to ganging up targets, thanks to getting bonus B based on number of enemies - while still keeping mods. Kinda whirlwind-style attack in terms of D&D.

It's that part not stacking with now more easily accessible gang-up bonuses from link I was commenting on. But then again, that's probably was always the point. And yeah, that's a rare occasion when you get to use it.

 

What part is not compatible with the gang-up bonus? Are you referring to the PH boost?

 

MA 5 allows you to gain extra effective B when you are in contact with several enemy models, by either allowing to attack every one of them in Active turn, or by granting you B equal to enemy B in reactive (to roughly the same effect, although distribution and purpose of that is different).

The problem is that this B isn't added to what you already have, it just sets it to a certain situation-specific number. Both Active and Reactive versions read to me like they don't allow extra mods to Burst. This becomes relevant now because Haris grants easier access to gang-up bonuses to your MA5 model, but they don't seem to stack with MA5 fully. It seems if you use MA5, you only get PH bonus from gang-up.

Unless, of course, "this Level allows the user to make a CC Attack against each enemy in base to base contact with him, and in Engaged state" sounds like something that can be further sprinkled up with +B from gang-up.

On the other hand, "...if the trooper with Martial Arts L5 declares a CC Attack his B will always be equal to the B of his adversary" sounds pretty straightforward to me, although it's probably even more rare to have gang-up bonuses on your Reactive turn to worry about.

Now, I get it that this isn't a thread about this rule, and that it's rather minor compared to actual practical concerns of Musashi Haris, but just wanted to drop my 2c. It turned out that either I don't understand MA5 completely, or people forgot about what I thought was the entire selling point of MA5.

 

In pretty much all CC specialist vs CC specialist interactions, MA3 is equivalent to MA5 in terms of you succeeding on the face to face. As far as I can tell, 3 only gets better when your CC gets knocked down to below 17.

 

I mean, yes, I do not expect amazing use from "whirlwind attack" in specialist on specialist scenario.

 

MA5 is also ridiculously effective if your oponent elects to MA4 you. You got 2 attacks? How cute.....

 

Right.

So it's when the MA5 model has a gang-up bonus. Well, the way the game plays, it's sort of difficult to get into situations where you actually benefit a whole lot from both gang-up and MA5 should they stack - mostly because of the difficulty of actually ending up in base-to-base contact with more than two targets with a 25mm base. In the reactive turn, MA5 and gang-up should stack, however, since the game doesn't really have a concept of order for multiplications, set numbers and additions so the set B value and the B MOD should both be MODs and thus stack.

Hah! Anyone who uses MA4 against Musashi or Shinobu deserves it :D

Only problem is when either of these two started the order Engaged, meaning they have to declare MA level before their opponent.

 

Sometimes I wish they would reorder the MA levels. 2 and 4 are more like utility options against non-cc targets than options with any real weight.

 

You should check the math on that, if they MA4 you almost always want to MA3, regardless of the matchup. I posted numbers for what happens in this case with Shinobu vs Achilles in one the threads about this.

 

Uhh... There's not many units that know MA4 and only two that knows MA5, so let's take Mushashi vs Achilles, the latter uses MA4:
MA3: 56 (18 unc) vs 30
MA5: 76 (50 unc) vs 15

Yeah... MA5 all the time when they MA4 you. It's not even close.

 

Bleh, maybe I'm misremembering what I wrote in my original MA post.

edit: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/martial-arts-l4-and-l5-niches.499/#post-4134

I just have a bad memory