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Maggie and Brawlers

Discussion in 'Dahshat Company' started by wes-o-matic, Dec 4, 2020.

  1. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    So, one of the things about N4 I haven’t seen discussed here yet is the effect of a Gizmokit on a linked engineer in Dahshat. It’s possible to do with most PanO sectorials, IA, WB, Bakunin, QK, Morats, OSS, Steel Phalanx (no core bonus though), Starmada, White Company, and most of NA2 armies thanks to either Kaplans or Brawlers.

    Burst 2 Gizmokit plus the Core BS bonus gives you decent odds to land both kit shots, and if either PH roll succeeds you can give the target back 1 STR.

    It’s not really the standard Dahshat archetype, but I’m toying with lists built around the Ghulam LT (+1 Command Token) with two or more Ghulams, plus Brawler MSV2 sniper and Brawler Engineer, along with 2-3 wild cards. The idea is to enable a Ghulam core linked NCO grenade launcher for either reliable smoke or spec fire, then break the link and reform it into a defensive/support core with the Brawlers and wild cards (probably Gromoz, an ABH, and maybe Sforza FTO for a linkable viral weapon). That leaves the Ghulam LT free to hide, and the NCO can use the LT order each turn to spec fire or lob smoke. As a backup plan, the Brawlers and one wildcard (probably Sforza) can form a haris, and the Ghulams and remaining wildcards can stay as a partial or full core link.

    That can all be accomplished with 7-8 models in one group, leaving a second group of 7-8 models available for a Maghariba Guard and cheerleaders. I was able to fit a Rafik FTO buddy for Maggie, two Fanous, a Dozer, baggage Mul, and Katyusha Mul into that group to provide a duo link, 7 regular orders, and Maggie’s TacAware order.

    Gromoz provides a core-linked pitcher and hacker with the choice of two baggage bots to reload pitchers as needed, plus two Fanous and a Rafik carrying repeaters to provide vectors for Spotlight.

    The REMs also provide flash pulse coverage, and the Rafik FTO can use Sensor to reveal camo, and Forward Observe to target things for bombardment by the core, Maggie, or the Katyusha.

    Yeah, the midfield isn’t great, but 17 orders, Maggie, options to inflict Targeted, guided rockets, grenade/smoke launcher, MSV2 MSR, a doctor +3, two engineers including one in a core or haris...not too bad, really.

    Edit: Added the Army list below. Note that you can downgrade (?) Maggie to the Minelayer profile and put the extra points into giving the Dozer a servant bot, or use them to replace the unarmed Traktor Mul with a third Fanous, or swap out a Fanous for a second ABH.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    BRAWLER (Engineer, Deactivator) Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
    SFORZA FTO Viral Rifle, Adhesive Launcher(+1B), Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 26)
    VALERYA GROMOZ (Hacker) Combi Rifle, Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    GHULAM (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]1
    MAGHARIBA MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Rocket Launcher, Grenade Launcher / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 88)
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT (Paramedic) Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    DOZER Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    TRAKTOR MUL Katyusha MRL / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 9)
    TRAKTOR MUL (Deactivator) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Depending on how you start the game, Sforza could be masked as either a generic Ghulam as a LT decoy, or as an ABH if your plan is to begin with the Brawler core up. My preference is to start with him in the Ghulam core, both to mess with alpha-strike attempts at decapitation, and to use the core bonuses to set up smoke or spec fire using the NCO grenade launcher before breaking the Ghulam core and migrating my three wildcards over to a new Brawler core.

    My plan for dealing with a castled Kamau or Haidao would be to try to either land a repeater and put it in Targeted (or ISO/IMM if possible), then dice it down with Maggie, or just spec fire it with the linked grenade launcher and/or the TAG grenade launcher in my other group, which is why I took the higher-cost Maghariba instead of the mine dispenser profile.
     
    #1 wes-o-matic, Dec 4, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's a 20% failure risk (actually slightly higher due to miss chance of 10% on the BS shot), making it similar to infiltrating with Shinobu - i.e. 90% risk of failure when you really need it to succeed. I don't think Gizmokit has the same potential to replace Engineer skill for repairs as Paramedic does for healing in factions that are less advanced than Pan-O, but it is certainly something to consider for order-saving gambles or avoiding AROs

    Related to this: I'm excited to try the Maggy christmas present delivery system with a self-contained bottomless santa sack full of mines.
     
    Danger Rose likes this.
  3. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    Since we can't spend a command token on Maggie repairs, the best we're going to get is a single die on 14 with a Najjarun, 13 with a Dozer, or 12 with a Brawler Engineer. By comparison, two dice on 11s looks pretty OK, and doesn't require getting into base contact.

    I think this strategy isn't a game-changer, but it's an interesting option, particularly for QK and NA2 lists, and I'm really interested in how well it fits into the tricky toolbox list builds available to Dahshat.

    Linked Engineers as TAG support are a mixed bag in most factions:
    • PanO: Core-linked Machinists are nice, but it's less attractive in PanO since there's the option to spend Command Tokens on re-rolls if you're actually in base contact, rather than relying on two Gizmokit rolls.
    • Bakunin: Clockmakers are linkable here, and natively B2. The only B3 Core-linked Gizmokit in the game is a nifty gimmick, but it's paired with the Lizard which is...an OK TAG I guess? I like it, but in Bakunin it's not necessarily a go-to list centerpiece.
    • Yu Jing: Using a cored Jujak or a Ye Mao in a haris is possible in WB, but then you've got to be running a core link that allows Jujaks to join, or you lose the +3 BS bonus that bumps your odds of hitting with both kit shots. IA does it better thanks to three (!) wildcard engineers, but they have so much else going on that it's almost lost in the background noise, and the ability to reach a Guijia that's jumped onto a rooftop is the most compelling argument I can think of.
    • OSS, Starmada: Same issue as PanO. Linkable Parvati is a nice hail mary option, but the fact that she has 6-2 move, super-jump, and can link a yudbot, plus being able to Engineer on an 18 (!!) and still use a Command Token to re-roll means that if you can get Parvati or a yudbot into silhouette contact, you should.
    • Steel Phalanx: Sure, you can use a B2 Gizmokit, but on what, your REMs? Meh.
    • Morats: You can get a Kurgat into a Haris for B2 Gizmokit, and the Raicho will heal on a PH=12 roll, but it's only helpful if you land both shots using a BS 12 B2 attack. Also meh.
    • QK: Most useful if you've got a Kaplan Engineer in a full core, and I'd consider it if I had an Iguana that was at STR 1 instead of Unconscious; worst-case scenario you accidentally break the TAG and deploy the 2W HI HMG operator inside in a cloud of smoke. However, the odds you'll run a full Kaplan core and a TAG in QK don't seem high.
    Of those, the most interesting are Invincibles (most likely Jeong in a core, unless you're running Krit FTO in an active midfield core) and maybe Bakunin trying to build a spec fire/zombie TAG list:

    Can't Stop Won't Stop
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    LIZARD MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Grenade Launcher(+1 Dam) / CC Weapon. (1.5 | 72)
    [​IMG] LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    TASKMASTER (Lieutenant) Red Fury, Pulzar, Crazykoala ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1 | 47)
    RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
    AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit [+1B]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle, Pitcher / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 10)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle, Pitcher / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 10)
    MODERATOR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 14)
    MODERATOR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 14)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1
    REAKTION ZOND Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Fun, and I'll probably run it sometime to see what happens. I like the Lizard, but she's not as exciting as she could be.

    That leaves the NA2 factions:
    • Druze: They're a lot like QK, but with a linkable Brawler rather than a Kaplan, and you can stick one in any Druze fireteam. Given how well Druze can do with REMs, and how likely you are to want to maximize your command tokens for fireteam management, I think a linked Brawler Engineer is a viable tool in Druze even in TAG-free lists. If you're taking Scarface you get Cordelia, and you'll likely want to save the points you'd spend on the Brawler Engineer, but in a REM-heavy or Anaconda list of Druze where you plan to run a Druze core, I'd consider sticking a Brawler Engineer in there as a handy toolbox in an active core link.
    • JSA: Yuriko Oda is damned useful to have in a fireteam already, and if you're running an O-Yoroi alongside, there's pretty good synergy there.
    • Ikari: The ability to stick a Brawler Engineer in a Wu-Ming core is handy, especially if the same fireteam also includes a REM, but the only TAG in the faction is Scarface, and you're already spending two points less on Cordelia who is a better engineer, so the likelihood of a Gizmokit in a link mattering much is lower.
    • Starco: You can put a Brawler Engineer in a Brawler haris, but the Clockmaker is a better engineer and gets B2 Gizmokit natively without a link, so why bother?
    • Spiral: Kumotails and Kosuils can go in a triad, and Brawlers can core, but the sectorial doesn't have REMs and the only TAG is potentially a lone Anaconda...who can already be in a duo with a Brawler.
    • ForCo: You can run a Kaplan Engineer in a Kaplan core with some wildcards, but the only TAG option is an Iguana, and I wouldn't build a list with the intent of taking advantage of this synergy given the other options in the sectorial.
    • WhiteCo: If your list includes a Kaplan or Orc core, you can use a Jujak Engineer or Kaplan Engineer, and Haidao are a wildcard. In a Guijia list that also uses any core fireteam, I'd seriously consider including a linkable Engineer with a similar plan to IA—use the trooper as a toolbox, and Gizmokit the TAG as needed. I think the Jujak is the best candidate, considering he has higher BS than the Kaplan and brings a better weapon kit and more wounds than the Haidao, but in lists without a Kaplan or Orc core the Haidao is fine.
    Those are mostly a mixed bag, with JSA, White Company, and maybe Druze as the standouts.

    And then there's Dahshat, and Maggie. Compared to the other manned TAGs in sectorials with linkable Engineers, only the Guijia stands out as a top-tier pick for synergizing with a linked Gizmokit, and that's mostly because of how hard it is to follow it onto a roof with an Engineer or Yaozao! No other faction can mate a Maghariba Guard with a core-linked Engineer. It's not a game-changer by itself, but for a sectorial built around a mix of toolboxes, dirty tricks, order spam, and brickbats, it's a nice touch and adds a dimension to N4 list-building.

    I liked Dahshat in N3, mostly because it felt like IA plus tools to play the mission or provide order/body spam, and I love IA but regret its lack of versatility sometimes. In N4, the shorter list cap and opportunity cost for Irregular troops puts N3 Dahshat list-building methodology on the back foot a bit, and I've been puzzling over how to approach it in the new edition.

    I think that there's a unique synergy in the Ghulam and Brawler dual link in general, because with 2-3 of each trooper type and 2-3 wild cards, you can cover MSV2, doctor+3, linked engineer, smoke, spec fire NCO, LT, and hacking in a fairly adaptable lineup. That's a lot of versatility for 8 models, most of which are cost-effective for what you get. That leaves enough points left over for one of my favorite TAGs in the game, which coincidentally is also pretty versatile in N4, and a few support units/cheerleaders to boot. Between Doctor +3 and the choice of B2 BS14 Medikit or B2 BS15 Gizmokit, there are plenty of tools to keep your troopers alive, and if Maggie is close enough then you can reload disposable weapons off her, including Gromoz's pitcher.

    If you don't mind putting Maggie in the main group and creating competition between her and your other links for their available orders, there are enough points and slots to have a variety of nasty surprises in the second group. Here's that configuration plus McMurder, two cheerleader repeater bots, and double Libertos...any of which could be bumped into the first combat group if you intend to go on a rambo run with them.

    Order Hunger 2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    GHULAM (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    VALERYA GROMOZ (Hacker) Combi Rifle, Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12)
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    BRAWLER (Engineer, Deactivator) Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
    MAGHARIBA MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B), Mine Dispenser / AP Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 85)
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT (Paramedic) Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    McMURROUGH Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP + DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    LIBERTO (Mimetism [-3], Minelayer]) Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 9)
    LIBERTO (Mimetism [-3]) Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Easy variants if you want more regular orders for McDoggo are to replace either Liberto with a Fanous, or drop both Libertos and get a Dozer and unarmed Traktor Mul in order to give McMurrough four regular orders, plus you get a backup engineer and second source of Baggage to go with those in exchange for losing your camo fish-men and a mine. That last one also works well with Maggie and Rafiq in Group 2 and just moving McMurrough into Group 1, where he can make good use of any unexpended orders from your main fireteams.

    Anyway, I'm pretty excited to try out Druze-esque flexible core fireteam lists as a starting point for bolting on more specialized tools like infiltration, camo, etc., and I'm really interested in pairing that setup with Maggie as described here.
     
    #3 wes-o-matic, Dec 4, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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