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List Advice: Helping a friend get into Infinity w OCF

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Tyrendian, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. Tyrendian

    Tyrendian New Member

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    So, I'm still very new myself, and am helping someone else from the FLGS get into infinity as at this point I kinda/sorta know what I'm doing. But, I don't really have a lot of experience playing, so thought I'd run it by the experts. He loves the CA fluff, and the OCF minis are all pretty cool. We talked out what he wanted from his list with the army builder up, and this was the outcome:

    [​IMG] Onyx Contact Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] OVERDRON Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / . (2 | 74)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] NEXUS Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] RODOK HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] RODOK Paramedic (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] RODOK Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] RODOK Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] MALIGNOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] MAAKREP TRACKER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Our general idea:

    2 sets of units 2 'sides' of the board. [Obviously this isn't a perfect analogy to how most boards wind up looking, but basic idea for tactics explanations]

    On the one hand: Nice backfield artillery piece with an aggressive fire team and support. Figure use the HMC/Albedo to clear out the usual ARO threats. If up against something with a lot of mods/better BS, the FO could even help [w surprise shot and TO on their side]. Speaking of which, FO would deploy in the marker state for orders, and hopefully be in a good position to grab and/or mine in the midfield right at the top of the game. The Morats [and depending on what the order pool looks like/stage of the game a slave] then can move up for support the FO/prosecute other objectives, and to use those shotguns to punish anyone that comes in close. Assuming their first movement or two is unopposed following the Overdron, can also put down some mines en route. And in the reactive phase those two units are pretty mean on their own. Also have a heavy weapon and a specialist.

    On the other: one of the slaves, the Maakrep, and the Q drone. Close enough to be mutually supporting while not being easily 'templateable.' Between SSL1 and 360, they're pretty rough to outflank and it'll hopefully take more than an order or two to chew through them, and there's a not super unreasonable chance of revival from the slave.

    Known weaknesses/areas for comment and address:

    Obvious Lieutennant, but SWC costs on everything not an umbra, and pts cost on the umbra, would mean we can't get the rest in.

    Counter TAG/SHI is a bit weak

    Order count - given that we really only have 2-3 active turn units though, some of which will invariably draw massive fire and die, not quite AS worried.

    Survivability of Dr Worm & TAG against enemy AD/etc threats.
     
  2. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    @Tyrendian I'm not clear from your post whether these models are owned, or how you'll manage to field your armies generally, but let me suggest a different approach here, and you coukd modify it accordingly.

    Help your friend learn the game more quickly by playing a Starter Box army each, and repeatedly playing simplified missions.

    You can generate missions by using the Highly Classified deck or YAMS or similar systems.

    Applying notional Retreat totals (such as playing to the last two units) is good, and you can easily contrive asymetrical, narrative missions.

    The goal is to play a lot of short, lighthearted games in which your friend feels free to exolore as many weapons, skills and rules as these small armies allow.

    TL;DR: If buying a first army, go with the Starter Box of your choice and learn the game with many short missions below 200pts, 4 SWC, <=8 Orders.

    I wrote some pointers with an educationalist slant here that might be applicable

    And paging @Magonus for his always well-considered insights on learning to play.
     
    #2 Wolf, Feb 4, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    Wyrmnax likes this.
  3. Magonus

    Magonus Well-Known Member

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    Your friend made a very good list for a first-timer. This is not likely to be his "final form" of a list―it is very hard for Onyx players to not include a Nexus Hacker, since the basic Hacking Device + Nullifier + best HMG Remote in the game (Q-Drone), is a strong combination. Aggressive fireteam with strong artillery with and backfield support is a very common setup, especially in 10-man lists.

    He could open up some points by taking the 2 Plasma Sniper or 2 Rockets Overdron instead of the Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon―and in fact that's highly recommended, since surprisingly that HMG Rodok will be more likely to deal damage than the Overdron. Maybe your friend just wants 3 hit points behind the biggest gun in the game, but that's something to consider.

    Obvious Lieutenants is a perennial problem in Onyx, and one of several glaring weaknesses.

    One fundamental practice I encourage is to never teach new players a wrong way to do something, even if it's faster or easier. If you teach someone an incorrect but easier way to do something, you will have to un-teach him later, and it may take months to get out of his head that he can't premeasure weapon ranges, or doesn't get to move on a failed Dodge roll, or doesn't get to infiltrate his Malignos into your side without a PH roll, etc.

    Overall it looks like he's doing his homework, so you guys should be just fine. I think you two will be able to get quite good at Infinity without much spitballing from this forum.
     
    Golem2God likes this.
  4. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I echo all the points brought up by the two people above with the exception of using YAMS or other system to teach people. ITS has evolved a lot, and I've noticed some veterans on the non-competitive side are still resistant to it more of bad experience than actual superiority when compared to the current system.

    Another point is: that Maakrep tracker seems a bit out of place in that list. I would take it out and try to squeeze in a hacker in its place to buff the drone. However, before doing that, I would also play a few 200 points game to get a good feel of the rules and how fireteams work.
     
  5. Brawler

    Brawler Well-Known Member

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    From someone that has been playing for a couple of years, albeit sporadically. I would really echo some of the things already said. Especially magonus idea of never teaching a new player the wrong way from the beginning.
    When I was introduced to infinity I had great friends that gave me plenty advice and even bought me a starter as a present.

    However, I was bull-headed and did not listen as much as I should have. I went for a sectorial right away, and in my first 300pts list I had a link team.

    Looking back I wish I would have listened more to my friends advice, since doing it my way I had to reinvent the wheel all over again.

    So, when it comes to helping your friend get into the game, a few advice(some being stated already)

    1. Go for a starter OR the army deal first. Starter is the easiest way, but the bigger box offers some alternatives so he doesn’t get stuck playing the same units over and over again. It is nicely priced as well, since starting an army from scratch can be pretty costly.

    2. Playing sectorial first night not be optimal for learning, but it does narrow down the number of options available which can be helpful when you’re new to the game. However:

    3. Skip link teams for starters, and I cannot overstate this enough. Even though you both might have experience from other games, link teams are a whole new dimension. Everything from deployment to movement can impact your game in a huge way.
    I played with link teams from the beginning and was constantly punished with shotguns, flamers and launchers for congalining them or deploying badly. This can be extremely discouraging for a new player.

    4. Just have fun, don’t worry about optimal or the end-result. By the time your friend can handle the list above, he might have changed his mind, perhaps even switched army. Go for low point battles, scenarios and let him discover each aspect of the game slowly.

    This might seem like cliché advice, but I wish I would have followed a lot of them when I started.
    Good luck!
     
    Wolf likes this.
  6. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    Don't start with full lists. Over here we tend to introduce people to the game with the ... uhhh... I think its the paradise start.

    First game is 3 PanO fusiliers vs 3 Nomad Alguacil.

    Then we add a HI for each side ( Brigada and Orc )

    Then something nifter on the rules ( Akali and Spekter )

    These 3 games take something like 2-3 hrs for a begginer to go through. And he learns a *lot* of the game without it getting overwhelming. Infinity has a lot of rules, if you want to introduce someone new to the game then you really want to go through the basics first
     
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  7. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is suggesting it here, but I've seen people say that you should just do a Free-for-all match to start. I'd push back against this (or guard against it, in this case), and start with at least some button to push or area to control. Nothing like Tic-Tac-Toe, but something with a classified that gives them an idea that there are troopers that you bring to don't do much fighting, but are pivotal to winning. I think new players can not only digest this concept fairly easily, but it teaches them early on that the game is much more than just throwing your biggest guns at each other.
     
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  8. Brawler

    Brawler Well-Known Member

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    This is excellent advice! Compared to plenty other tabletops what gives infinity depth is exactly this. I’ve lost plenty of games after nearly wiping the opponent out, while I was busy killing, he went for the objectives.