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First steps with MAF, CA and Infinity - my log

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by gru6y, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a humble Raktorak serving others.

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    @gru6y Great job on your recent matches. You will get better in time and those mistakes you made will become less and less. Looking forward to your next post and your continued progress with the Morats & Combined.
     
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  2. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    It is great to see you are improving and getting more excited about your minis! That's probably the best part about this game.

    I'm not sure if you have tried this or not, but consider switching the position of Bit and the Q-Drone on that list. Q-drone with marksmanship lvl2 is one of the best killers in combined, and I found that having it rampage a bit can really help clear our the more well entrenched enemy forces before your other models move into an optimal position
     
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  3. gru6y

    gru6y Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your comments guys. I think Infinity is the hardest game I have ever played and now, when I hear veterans who played it for years admitting that sometimes they also do feel completely lost and cluleless, I appreciate it even more.

    I only played two games with the Q-Drone and both times used it defensively (also, both times with really bad luck). I also do not know how order consuming B&K are, as they usually end up not doing anything the entire game. The only game they could have done anything, Bit got Sucker Punched by a Custodier in the first FtF...

    So, should Bit & Kiss stay in the smaller group and work as a hacking ARO?
     
  4. Bohrdog

    Bohrdog Santathematics

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    My main use for B&K is to use the pitcher to support my other hackers and as hacking ARO. The rest of the time they will wait in cyber mask for a target to come to them to get glued.
     
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  5. gru6y

    gru6y Well-Known Member

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    Another league game in!
    I played a 300pts, spec-less Looting and Sabotaging against PanO.
    This was my first time playing against an experienced PanO player and I got completely surprised by his list.
    He used something like this:
    [​IMG] PanOceania
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] DE FERSEN Spitfire / Pistol, Templar CCW (AP + Shock). (2 | 58)
    [​IMG] JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)
    [​IMG] SWISS GUARD HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 68)
    [​IMG] PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    [​IMG] HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27)

    6.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I was astonished by how much presence on the board a lot of the models had. Combination of Joan coordinated orders, plenty of heavy weapons and cammo meant that I really did not have an idea about hoiw to crack it open. It was also the first time I encountered a Swiss Guard HMG, which proceeded to butcher most of my guys, so yeah, got that out of the way.

    The game ended with a loss of 3-5, but I failed to kill a single model and would probably lose 0-10 if the scenario was not harder to complete for my opponent.

    My list:
    [​IMG] Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Submachine Guns, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] MORAT Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] ANYAT K1 Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Smoke Grenades, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Things I learned:
    -Don't try to discover a suspicious cammo marker after its first short move or your 40pts Suryat will eat a HMG burst and die like a little bitch.
    -Try to find a spot for the Q-Drone in the first group.
    -Use templates against TO, B weapons are almost useless against them
    -Never ever again think that Retroengeneering will be easier to accomplish than Test Run.

    All in all, a good learning experience and some insightful comments from my opponent after the game.
     
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  6. salsa the hutt

    salsa the hutt New Member

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    Brutal.

    Gotta try that!
     
  7. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    Infinity is about learning! I've been on this game for a year now and I still have a hard time cracking some oponents (don't get me started on Tohaa vs Morats). If you can gleam a new lesson after every game, you will see yourself improving more and more.
     
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  8. Sora9785

    Sora9785 Well-Known Member

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    Vs tohaa is a special one. Try always to break their links with the weakest chain (mostly kamael or makauls). Going for the lieutenant is mostly fruitless because kealtar with symbioMATES is always a CoC (and the non lt taquel but he is not so mainly played). Also try to burn them (if morats have fire).

    And I had a lot of trouble against the sogarat in cover
     
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  9. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    been there, done all that. Problem is when your oponent plays 4 symbio-mates, two chain of command blokes and two of those BS13 mimetism guys. It's not to say I can't beat them, but as MAF I often have a hard time because my models lack tricks to make up for the lack of resistance. As Ariadna or Nomads I usually have a way easier time (but I play 13 camo tokens Ariadna :D)
     
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  10. gru6y

    gru6y Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of which, I just came back from a game against CHA!
    We played a 300pts specless Supplies.

    Unfortunately, I know nothing about Ariadna, so I will not be able to post my opponent's list, but he definitely had
    Wallace linked with Isobel, Volunteers and a HMG Grey Rifle (pure porn in terms of points efficiency if you ask me), Uxia specialist, McMurrough, an SAS, a couple of Caterans and some Galwegians. Probably more stuff that I have forgotten about.

    I used:
    [​IMG] Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]6 [​IMG]9
    [​IMG] PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    [​IMG] PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    [​IMG] OZNAT Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE Boarding Shotgun, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 18)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9
    [​IMG] RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] YAOGAT Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I lost 4:5, and though I made quite a lot of mistakes (mainly with my hungries, with which I played for the first time), I felt like I was in control and had a good grasp of what was going on. I was able to complete both of my classifieds and managed to get two of the three boxes. One of which was unfortunately ripped from the hands of a dead Oznat by my opponent in the last turn.
    MVPs:
    Krakot, who rolled for 6-4 move on his metachemistry and made a first turn box run to my table edge.
    Oznat, who provided mid range smoke coverage on 17s (woop, woop!) along with 5 ultracheap regular orders.
    Yaogat, who provided midfield support and proved to be a hard obstacle for my cammo'ed and smoke tossing opponent.

    Lessons learned this game:
    Take more Yaogats (especially now that I have a smoke grenade launcher in the roster). I think I will swap out the Kornak-Raktorak-Suryat haris for Yaogat Spitfire/MSR/Panzerfaust and see how they perform.
    Choose Redrum instead of Maestro as my go to hacker assassinate ARO. I failed two AROs on Isobel because of chosing the wrong program.
    Explore Hungries aggressively, they are cheap, fast and versatile. I need to learn how to fully make use of these dudes and dudettes.

    Also, I want to ask you guys something. Is it legal to start the game with Extremely Impetuous troops, prone in total cover and use the first Impetuous order for Idle+Move to avoid AROs?
    My opponent said that this move is illegal and I did not argue (which resulted in both of my Pretas being slaughtered in the first turn), but later on I checked the rules and I cannot find anything which forbids this play.
     
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  11. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    How would this avoid AROs? You'll be forced to stand up and move 6" towards the closest enemy model with your Move, and by idling first you won't get an opportunity to Dodge/Move again/Chain Rifle.
     
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  12. sanyv

    sanyv Active Member

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    Yes move+idle is valid, it's written explicitly in the wiki in the Impetuous page. But if you appear in LoF of an ennemy during your move (move+idle or idle+move, it doesn't change anything) then said ennemy is allowed to ARO. So, in your situation, I often choose to play the impetuous orders of my smokers, then the hungries can impetuously rush ahead with move+idle, move+dodge or move+move.

    About the yaogats, they are good in a Haris (love the linked panzerfaust, as you mention). Not so much in a Core. But don't rely too much on the smoke+msv2 trick, it works perfectly against some opponents, but others just don't care, or will take profit of it (white noise for instance). It's always a difficult balance to find ;-)
     
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  13. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    [​IMG] Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]6
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] RAICHO MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 91)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] RAICHO PILOT 2 Heavy Pistols, D-Charges, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] OZNAT Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Lieutenant HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 45)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    this is the list I ran in a game very similar to yours (also against CHA, and the same mission)

    CHA really struggles to kill the heavy guys at range, so if you can manage to position them well the Suryat and Raicho can survive the whole game (it was the first time Oyat made it back home on her own steed) and while it lacks MSV, you can use all the flamers and chain rifles to deal with camo just fine.

    I often prefer the yaogat haris to the suryat haris, but they're both different monsters. I seldom put orders on a suryat haris on the first turn, while for the yaogats I usually do a smoke trick to remove more dangerous targets before advancing with some other stuff.
     
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  14. gru6y

    gru6y Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this of course. Recently I played against a lot of cammo markers and got so fixed on the 'you can wait out the first short order before declaring ARO against markers, but not against normal models', that I somehow assumed that idling through the first half of order makes you impervious to AROs. Derp.

    My biggest gripe with Yaogat haris is their SWC cost of the cool toys and also the fact that if you want to include a lietnenant in it, there is really little choice on loadouts. Also, the point cost is pretty steep, but guess that if you want a MSV2 link, you gotta pay. I wanted to take a MSR in my list last game, but could not fit the points in. Looking back, it would be a better choice as it would give me an edge against mimetic snipiers fielded by my opponent.


    Thanks DRO, your commets are always welcome!
    I like your list, will give it a go in the future (when I finish painting my Raicho).
    To be honest, the Suryat found himself outranged by the Caterans. My first reactive turn, after passing a save, I just went prone, as the odds against me were so high, that I did not want to risk taking a T2 shot to the face. I should have changed his position on my first turn (especially that I think he was covered by smoke from most AROs, but I got so preocupied with completing the mission, that I left him behind standing up, and moved the rest of my haris midfield. I have to admit, I have little luck using Suryats and Sogarats. I need to change my approach towards them and start to use them actively instead of as ARO pieces.
     
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  15. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I will always, always defend the Sogarat HMG as the best Lt option for MAF. Move him up a lane, use that LT order to drop him into supressive fire, and dare your opponent to hit him with everything but the kitchen sink. Hell, I won a game VS nomads recently just because my oponent revealed his intruder HMG too early to try to take a potshot at my Sog out of cover, thus allowing me to sweep off all his heavy weapons off the board in a single turn (Yaogats took down the Algualciles with HMG and Missile Launcher and the Q-Drone butchered that intruder after my Sog tanked the shot)

    As for yaogats, think like this: A yaogat with combi and panzerfaust costs 29 points and 0,5 SWC, while a yaogat with haris skill costs 30 points and 0,5 while also having combi and panzerfaust. So you're actually paying 1 point for the haris skill.

    [​IMG] Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] YAOGAT (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle + Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] YAOGAT Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 27)

    2 SWC | 91 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Is my favorite version of the haris, but no way the only one. I just like it because it gives me a potent ARO block (Panzerfaust seldomly runs out of ammo when I run 1-2 ikadrons on every list) and if I need it on the active turn it also works.

    But as I said, that tends to work for me just because I tend to use either Sogs or Suryats as lieutenants, so I don't even try to put a lieutenant in the link
     
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  16. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member
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    Meh, 4 mates is just like 4 mutts, you will use it for competitive games, but you know that's dirty.
     
  17. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Don't worry; you're not alone in feeling that way! May I offer The WatchWolf Ten Point Plan for learning to play Morats and Infinity in general.

    1) Understand that very smart people often struggle with (often undiagnosed) learning difficulties. Many tabletop gamers are highly imaginative and exceedingly smart, and it follows that many are also often struggling with learning more than they themselves expect or realize.

    2) See (1) and note that whilst experienced gamers can be your greatest asset, they can also be pretty unhelpful too. Being smart doesn't mean we also know how to teach, especially if we want to play the whole game, try out our latest shenanigans, and generally get our rocks off...

    3) Stay well below 200 points and a single battle group for as long as you possibly can and far longer than many around you will probably want. See (1) and (2) and realize that what's good for experienced players isn't necessarily good for you too.

    4) Regarding (3), we recently started doing teaching and progression games with just the Starter Sets (~ 170 points), and Starter Box matches are now a standard format in the play group. You could suggest this to your play group and see what uptake you get.

    5) Keep a log of the Skills you've read about and feel you understand, and then tick them off when a) you've had experience of others playing them on you, and b) when you've experience of playing them yourself. Learning is doing; so until you're doing it, you're not really learning it.

    6) Notes on adult education: if you struggle to comprehend something and the other player says "Huh! Well, I told you about it!" feel free to mentally put them in the category described in (1) and generally beware. The attitude is conceited, toxic and unfortunately very common.

    7) See (1) and find someone who is demonstrably less inclined to get their rocks off at your expense, and more inclined to put their own wishes aside for the sake of helping you learn. Reward them for their patience with beer/cola and pizza. :smile:

    8) See (5) and share this list with your new best teaching buddy; invite them to introduce new skills at appropriate moments, but only at your own learning speed. Again, you can reward their patience with beer/cola and pizza. :smile:

    9) Very smart people respond well to being bought beer/cola and pizza. (It says here, in my Teaching Notes :wink:)

    10) (Morats) If you find your troops are dying to jenky un-Morat tricks like too much ODD on Aleph troops, and far too many ARO's for Tohaa troops, remember this is temporary pain we of the Left Hand gladly suffer until they too are subsumed to serve the Evolved Intelligence . :smile:
     
    #37 Wolf, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  18. gru6y

    gru6y Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Wolf, this is a really good list.

    Yeah, but this is a very good learning experience on its own. I am perfectly fine with playing with experienced players and getting my ass handed to myself. Of course, ideally I would like them to go easy on me, help me with choices and setting up and even simulate various situations on the table and solve them together. I am however very new to the community and deffinitely do not feel I can ask people to spend their free time on teaching me how to play. Also, I do not unfortunately have any close friends who play Infinity (yet!)

    This is very hard, but looking back, I will have to probalby revert to this. I have a big model collection and I tend to switch stuff between games without even trully understanding what roles the models can achieve.
    This I will do, starting today, great advice!


    I have just came back from another 300 points game. It was against 2015 ITS International Champion, so needless to say - 10:0 ;)
    However, I was talked through the entire game and my opponent was also keen to discuss playing MAF and generally Infinity, so we talked for some two hours after the game. Good times.
     
  19. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that this game provides enough to learn without jumping immediately into Specialist-based ITS missions. Play some just-for-fun firefights, or start slow with YAMs missions. I'm coming back to the game after about 12 months... and ITS has gone from 6ish missions to a document with 60+ pages. Wth?
     
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