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JSA - Premature Tactical Assessment

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Teslarod, Mar 12, 2018.

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  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    5 orders to kill a quarter of my enemy's army and half of his heavy weapons? And what is likely their lieutenant? I'll take those odds every time. And it's an Achilles - if your enemy brings him, they're going to be playing him aggressively in the midfield, so if you can read their deployment, you'll know where he's going.

    Everything in Infinity is a gamble. But to trade what is now a 37 point unit with a 75 point unit with an 80% success rate? Those are odds I'll take almost every time.

    I don't know what you mean by this. Sneaking up behind him?

    JSA gets a 5-man linked Missile Launcher that shoots on 19s in a good range before enemy modifiers. I'm going to spend 2 orders in this case. None if I'm going second and park the missile where it's watching the sniper. Even a linked Keisotsu Missile is going to have even odds with that, and it's 14 points.

    Or I deploy so I can literally just ignore it. We play on dense tables near me.
     
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    52% vs 23%, providing that the Aleph player is not able to read your list and push a Daleth up close to your position which turns that encounter into a 7% vs 66% (I'm assuming a sensor-scanned reactive Onibawan won't have cover), which effectively makes the Onibawan effective versus Achilles only if you get first turn and can infiltrate the Onibawan and when you don't have to pick the correct Achilles out of 4 options. Ajax is slightly harder to kill than Achilles, but only if you have surprise attack on Achilles.
    Achilles is not a fun target for an Onibawan, but on the other hand it's a better gamble than trying to take on a cheaper Igao who is guaranteed not to be LT - where the odds are 45% vs 28% if the Onibawan has Surprise Attack, the odds literally flips to the reverse if the Onibawan does not.

    What's my point? I don't actually have a point. Just highlighting that some of those targets are a lot harder than one could give them credit for. Igao in particular is harsh. Just be glad Tohaa doesn't have infiltrating sensors or sniffers - keep Shinobu away from Igao.
     
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, sending a Domaru after Jerkilles was more satisfying than anything else I've done in Infinity, and that was way back when N3 first dropped and cypherkk and I ran a Learning N3-CC game (both sides take nothing but CC dudes, JSA versus Greeks)

    EM weapons are definitely your friend for that exchange!
     
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  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    @Alphz @Mahtamori The thing about CC is that most people don't use it enough to appreciate it.
    If you don't know the dirty tricks, your Oniwaban will indeed have to try to chop up Achilles with 52% to his 23%. However if you chugg Smoke at Achilles' face or get a abusable corner to ZoC ARO cheat your way into BTB with any other model (easiest with high mobility troops like Servants, Flashpulse or Sensor bots as well as Bikes) before the Oniwaban enters CC, you get +1B.
    This changes the odds to 75% vs 11% wich is a massive improvement for minor Order Expenditure.

    Extra Burst through Gang Up (as the Dice Calculator calls it) also gives you the best odds against NBW troops - Ajax still takes you with him through Berserk though.

    And like Section9 says, the E/M CCW DOmaru Berserk is also an option (although the Domaru almost certainly dies), you get an 82.45% chance to make Achilles a statue.

    Declaring your first Short Skill in ZoC but outside of LOF (Smoke or around a convenient building corner). Triads and Achilles don't have Sixth Sense to delay so this always forces a Change Facing. As a result it buys you a free move into BTB as the second Short Skill without ARO.

    It's also very exploitable with a MSV2 in ZOC through Smoke.
     
    #24 Teslarod, Mar 15, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  5. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    Kinda worried about the CC focus + lack of smoke and limited long range offensive options. Decent ARO coverage is gonna be a bitch to get through.
     
  6. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Tanko's still got missile launchers baby! That plus TRO REM are your long range ARO.

    Also, I'd like to point out that unlike the Yu Jing ninjas, the JSA version has a 35 point FO option. Thats pretty awesome.
     
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  7. fatRat

    fatRat Member

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    The new Ryuken Odd solves the Aro Problem nicely. BS12 X-vsior and Odd mean they have a pretty easy time geting rid of missel luncers and Tr bots. We didnt get smoke but the Odd+To spam became a lot stronger.
     
  8. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    The one with ODD has a Submachinegun. Meaning it will almost never be on its +3 range, but yes, ODD is pretty strong.

    Obvious ARO on JSA consist of missile launchers on linked HI and the eventual camouflaged Ryuken HRL. It is limited in its numbers, but hell ,it is strong.

    The way you have to contest long ranged ARO is a bit less orthodox. Instead of dealing with it with superior firepower from range and smoke to deny LOS, you have TO camo that needs to get in their face and say hello from very close. It is a very interesting concept, but the absolute reliance on it might cause problems, since TO is so expensive to begin with. And has trouble dealing with cheap templates in mines/chain rifles/flamethrowers. Kinda lets wait and see how it goes.
     
  9. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    The Ryuken ODD is a nice addition. The HRL one does the same as before - which is an entirely optional quality package that doesn't do anything explicit you would need.

    The new Haramaki as well as the Domaru Specialist are impressive, but slightly more expensive than before. The "optimal" Link is not exactly cheap and you can't go for 1 Domaru +4 Haramaki like you could before.

    [​IMG] Japanese Secessionist Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5 [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] DOMARU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    [​IMG] DOMARU Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] TANKŌ Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] TANKŌ Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)

    3.5 SWC | 153 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I like the way this turned out, although I won't be really running the Specialist. Putting Neko into the Link instead of a FO and then simply relying on Ninjas or the new Saito to push buttons feels better. Never was a big fan to hold HI Links back to use the ML and JSA has too many awesome toys to spend all your points here.
    So this is much closer to what I'd actually put on the table:

    [​IMG] Japanese Secessionist Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5 [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] OYAMA Lieutenant Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] DOMARU Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] TANKŌ Blitzen, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] TANKŌ Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] TANKŌ Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23)

    2 SWC | 136 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    AVA5 on Keisotsu is the real bummer. Bye bye CC focused Order spam, I'll fondly remember you. I do not like that change at all, might still be an army error until we get our hands on the book. Since we'll be running a Ninja KHD and/or Keisotsu Hacker most of the time anyway we can replace some Keisotsu with Baggage and Flashpulse bots, but it's simply not quite the same.
    With Domaru & Tanko Profiles released, as well as better Aragoto to spend points on, the Daiyokai straight up died on me. 4-4 BS13 unfortunately is just nothing special to write home about.
     
  10. fatRat

    fatRat Member

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    @Wyrmnax
    the Xvsior lets him shoot at range fare more efficent than it looks on Pape. You can stand at rang vs Chain guns and get up Close vs Tr stuff.


    In coperison to the ninja Sniper(42p) who usualy shoots 2 shoots at 11s. (+range-cover) the Ryuken(24p) shoots 3 shoots at 9s.(X vsior-cover) They have rougly the same Defenses(ninja obiosly has suprice shoot) but the Ryuken realy helps with our shooting. Just a very good peace for its price.
     
  11. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I'm absolutely sure that the AVA5 on Keisotsu for JSA is just an army 6 error. Theres no way that Ikari has ava total Keisotsu.

    So do not worry. You'll be able to order spam for your CC focused units.
     
  12. EDOCGenKip

    EDOCGenKip Member
    Warcor

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    I haven't seen anyone mention that the Tankou now have a Flammenspeer + Contender profile; this is AMAZING for reactive killing, since the flammenspeer can use template mode to ignore the cover armor bonus and apply fire, where before the Blitzens would only really be a minor nuisance (barring HI, TAGs, and REM; LI getting isolated isn't so bad, relatively speaking). I've run the ML so many times and it rarely gets stuck in the back; ever since the Domaru spitfire could join the link, all the range bands have been covered (0 - 8 assortment of things; 8 - 24 Spitfire; 24 - 40 ML) and provide a GLORIOUS assault unit. ML covers the long on the first reactive turn, then the unit hurtles forward, using the Domaru spitfire to clear the way and the ML to snipe off any looking to react against the team at range (not much wants to be standing to take BS 16 ML to the face).

    My only worry is that the linked team got more expensive, with the Domaru and Tankou going up by 1 pt per, assuming I don't take the FO Domaru. My lists were already knife-edge bare on point expenditure that I have to figure out what to drop to keep the team; as someone else pointed out, now that Saitou can be a specialist, I'm also considering leaving the FO out. I'm still going to try a few games with the FO in to see how that goes.

    lol, I always run 2 panggulings and the 1 Chaiyi; moar point savings for me that I need to spend on the linked team XD

    None of my lists include the Daiyoukai; I dislike it immensely, heh
     
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