JSA - a possible new full Faction in N4?

Tema en 'Japanese Secessionist Army' iniciado por Lothair, 7 Feb 2020.

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Will JSA become a full faction or stay in NA2

  1. Yes.

    10 voto(s)
    10,3%
  2. Likely.

    11 voto(s)
    11,3%
  3. Very unlikely.

    41 voto(s)
    42,3%
  4. No.

    35 voto(s)
    36,1%
  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Oniwaban is never going to fully encroach on Shinobu until he remembers to pack his smoke grenades.
     
  2. SpectralOwl

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    Shinobu could still see an upgrade relative to even her current stats. +1 B (CC) springs to mind, as does NBW so she can assassinate Martial Artists and I-Kohlers more reliably. At the moment there's no assassin in the game that can actually take down other CC specialists, Shinobu could definitely be made to fill that niche.
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That's basically Taowu, though. Taowu versus Shinobu is at 34% versus 30% (it doesn't get too much worse for Taowu against other targets, but it also doesn't get much better, either) and Igao is the undisputed melee champion with 41% vs 33% versus Shinobu (subject to change in N4) before Surprise Attack. Shinobu is the ultimate anti-everything-else, however, counting basically only Achilles among their peers. Got a TAG problem? Shinobu > Igao. Got a Knightly Order problem? Shinobu > Igao. Come N4 Adil might be another contender for the melee throne, but he's not got marker state so just shoot him.

    That said, I think using the N4 system the Monofilament CC units are the blind spots. "CC Attack (+1 Burst)" doesn't work in the reactive turn while Martial Arts only has two levels for them; 1 and 5. I think we'll have to wait and see whether Shinobu et al gets bumped up in ability to retain their top-dog position or if they get knocked down in points so that making lists with these excellent assassins is all the more possible.
     
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  4. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see Mono weapons be usable against scenery. This is in most missions a reason not to field Shinobu/Oniwaban and opt for Ninjas and Saito.
     
  5. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I've started some basic work on an N4/C1 calc, but it's very hard for me to make progress on personal projects currently.
     
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  6. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Not 100% sure how you coded it, but you appear to have all parts you need set up in the framework, the changes should be fairly minor.
    To get a working version (without the edge cases like E/M CCWs), wouldn't you only have to replace the crit autowound with 2 ARM/BTS rolls multiplied by opposed Crit Chance?

    To make an example:
    N3 Crits add the crit chance (opposed by other Crits canceling them) straight to expected Wounds.
    For a B4 HMG vs B1 ARO:
    18.5% x 0.95 (for 5% opposing Crit chance to cancel) = 0.176 expected Wounds from Crits
    You already calculate all of that

    For N4 that would need to be replaced with opposed crit chance x the same FTF roll with +2 ARM/BTS rolls.
    So again taking a B4 HMG vs B1 ARO, against a ARM1 Trooper in Coveras example:
    18.5% x 0.95 (for 5% opposing Crit chance to cancel) = 0.176 x 1.1 (2x55% chance to fail ARM1+3) = 0.194 expected Wounds from Crits

    Everything else on the calculation side should stay exactly the same.
    But the Math probably is neither the hard nor the work intensive part, changes to MA levels, weapon Profiles and upcoming stuff is going to be the big chunk.
     
  7. Catspaw

    Catspaw Well-Known Member

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    On a completely unrelated note, I want Saito to get his specialist profile back in N4. To this day I am unsure why they took it away in the first place.
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think the fact that people want it back is sort of telling that it was useful and therefore at risk of upsetting the sectorial's balance - so its inclusion has to be playtested.

    That and the FO Ninja is probably meant to do the job that SO Saito does for Druze.
     
  9. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see Aragoto getting a Haris option. I always imagined them as a group of bikers acting together, roaring through the streets...
     
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  10. Fed4ykin

    Fed4ykin Well-Known Member

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    It's actually sad that mushashi doesn't come to mind when Close combat is the issue at hand. But yeah, he is missing something to really make him viable.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I did forget about him, didn't I? And I've not only got the collector's duo, but also the chibi :p

    He's interesting. The only example I have come across where N3 Martial Arts 5 is preferable in solo combat, I couldn't believe it at first when someone told me about it and it's amazing how it's only for Mushashi this seems preferable for and not Shinobu. Basically when fighting Shinobu, Achilles or another Mushashi, Mushashi should opt for Martial Arts 5 unless the opponent declares using Martial Arts 4 (which is basically suicide to do against Mushashi).
    He's still outclassed in melee when fighting an Igao, though, particularly if the Igao gets Surprise Attack off, plus Mushashi and Adil are in the same boat - no marker state (not even Mimetism), NWI, and shock vulnerable, so just shoot them.
     
  12. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Yeah, I've got the basic crit math in already. I'm just struggling to find the time/energy to put together a complete package.
     
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  13. SpectralOwl

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    Targets. Nobody comes anywhere near him and he doesn't start near them. And the few that do approach can abuse one rule or another to just ignore his mighty CC skill- Antipodes and Uberfall come to mind. N4 Dodge will be pretty big for him though; he'll become very viable against anything trying to DTW trade in close quarters by just dodging forward and kicking their head in. Chain Rifle Warbands are fairly reliable in CC but most of them aren't even close to taking Musashi in a face-to-face fight, and Heavy Infantry or TAGs using their durability to trade will have it even worse. Another big thing would be if the rules about CC with G:Synch, Antipodes etc. changed to allow him to actually fight them properly, but somehow I doubt that will happen.
     
  14. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see Tanko AVA go to 5, just so I can run a Domaru/Tanko link and a Musashi Haris if I want.

    I really wish Musashi had a reason to exist, but Yojimbo does the same job, better, and provides smoke cover. Give him Eclipse grenades or something, I'd even take a +1B to Dodge. But if the...previews...are anything to go by it looks like he just gets cheaper.
     
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