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JSA - a possible new full Faction in N4?

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Lothair, Feb 7, 2020.

?

Will JSA become a full faction or stay in NA2

  1. Yes.

    10 vote(s)
    10.6%
  2. Likely.

    11 vote(s)
    11.7%
  3. Very unlikely.

    41 vote(s)
    43.6%
  4. No.

    32 vote(s)
    34.0%
  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    JSA absolutely won't be getting any new gear. Maybe a couple of fireteam changes, but I really doubt anything more than that. The costing differences hopefully will make JSA less reliant on Keisotsu links to push out orders, but the move away from Flash Pulse bots and the fact that technical weapons (Flash Pulse) don't get Fireteam bonuses now means that if we are still reliant on Keisotsu links, things will be very bad.
     
    wuji likes this.
  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    With so many CC Specialists, the Crit changes hurt a bit, especially on E/M and Mono CCWs.
    The Shotgun change hurts more than it helps. Karakuri HSG or Oniwaban BSG rolling FTF vs entire Links was one of our better assets, significantly more troops having a DTW to counter CC is going to be a pain.

    Not everything is bad though.
    Buffed HI makes a lot of things useable, but hardly outstanding. Our Oyoroi and his AP HMG looks to be the biggest winner in the whole Faction.
    CC getting slightly better on our EXP CCW carriers and on average more worthwhile targets for CC and both Koalas (Yojimbo/Oyoroi) and Mines (Ryuken/Yuriko) have more impact with less things swarming the table.

    Overall I think JSA might need some sort of rework or major buffs to come out of this as a winner.
     
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  3. Fed4ykin

    Fed4ykin Well-Known Member

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    We know ninjas will get SMGs, fingers crossed they and oniwanban also get smoke access.
    Isn't a crit with mono an auto kill of anything without total immunity or isn't mono a thing anymore at all?
    Dual wield should give +1 burst.
    But that's just wishlisting. We will see what we get.
     
  4. Catspaw

    Catspaw Member

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    Crits in C1 simply add another damage roll, regardless of ammo type. I assume that'll be the way it works in N4 as well, which means that Mono (and CC specialists in general) take a pretty hefty hit. A nearly-guaranteed crit off of a CC 30+ attack is not going to be nearly as dangerous as it was.
     
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    A mono CCW crit still means a 84% chance of instant kill in N4 (if my maths is working)
     
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  6. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    A few things:

    • Why would they become a Vanilla faction? Can you envision multiple JSA Sectorials, outside of wishlisting? No, of course not. The game doesn't need more Vanilla factions.
    • I'm less worried about Crit Changes affecting CC, because CC is a rare thing (even for JSA.) I had plenty of games where there were zero CC kills, and if you're relying too heavily on kills, you're being very inefficient with your order expenditure.
    • Heavy Infantry going down in cost is a win.
    • Starting a Ryuken-9 in Suppressive Fire is a win.
    • AP HMG on the O-Yo is a win (agreed with @Teslarod )
    • Shotgun changes definitely hurt. Shotgunning multiple targets was one of the few ways to do heavy BS-based damage with JSA (agreed with Teslarod.)
    • JSA's E/M arsenal will have a lot of useful, relevant targets this edition.
    • Tac Window is probably the biggest thing that plays in JSA's favor. With the list building focus shifting to slightly more elite units, coupled with opponents have fewer opposing bodies on the table, and the price drop for Heavy Infantry means JSA can field their better troops and crack opposing defense much more easily.
     
  7. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    How are you doing the math?
     
  8. AkiPL

    AkiPL Member

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    I think CO changed tables for MA, if it go to N4 as well, it will mean that to save Mono you will have to pass tests on 13-15 dmg, still not insta-kill but well...

    I still hope that besides fact that we are good at opening cans, we get some tools that allow us to deliver can-openers to the right place easier.

    Also I would love to see JSA going through some shooting-training, I know swords are cool, but Infinity is mostly gun-wars.
     
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  9. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    A crit gives two rolls, each with a 40% chance of failure.

    40%x40% gives a 16% chance of both rolls failing.

    So the chance that one or both dice succeed is 100-16=84%
     
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  10. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    What rework or buffs were you thinking?
     
  11. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I used the dice calculator making a dtw B2 with mono to get the 84% I thought you were also accounting for the CC attack as well. Cause what we're looking for is the successful F2F roll and then at least one ARM save being failed. A CC resulting in only one save is totally different.
     
  12. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Mono in C1 (and presumably N4) works the same as N3, so a normal hit has the exact same 60% odds of killing as it always did.

    The big difference is crits which have gone from auto-kill to an 84% chance of kill. Unarguably less effective, but still very, very powerful.

    Now, in the specific case of Oniwaban the changes to MA do hurt them as the damage bonus doesn't apply to mono CCWs and they lose the option for +1 burst, though this also depends on if/how the Oniwaban's profile changes. Running the numbers with their current stats could be ultimately futile.
     
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  13. Fed4ykin

    Fed4ykin Well-Known Member

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    They could still change the effect of mono or mono gets cheaper and costs no more swc (which it didn't do in JSA but some other factions IIRC)
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I don't think we'll see mono change from Code One as they're keeping as many things as possible the same between the two games.

    Costs are certain to change, CC appears to be significantly cheaper in N4, though Camouflage looks a little more expensive, the BSG and SMG have both gone up a couple of points, but the BSG Oniwaban will almost certainly lose their superfluous nanopulser which saves a point or two.

    Surprise Attack also goes from -6 to -3,but most CC specialists have seen a bump to their stats.

    It's also only 10 days until we set the whole picture, so I'm holding off too much worry.
     
  15. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I feel like Ninja's or at the very least Oniwaban should be BS 12 and Oniwaban should get MA 5 for that B+1 access still.
     
  16. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I saw CC on the Sujian went up 2 points right? If CC on everthing in JSA went up 2 points, you'd see some deadly shit.

    I hope Musashi gets more table time though. I'm a huge fan of players being able to use the same sectorial and make two very different lists in order to accomplish the same mission so if we ever get a mirror match, the lists could still be different.
     
  17. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping Domaru and all the character that can link, get Wildcard. I hope with HI getting cheaper, we can see a competitve list of all HI if we wanted.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    1 point on each profile. Most Yu Jing units that are not brand new and with a CC of 17 or lower are getting an increase in CC for reasons that I think are mostly filling out the points cost. What this means for JSA is hard to tell, but if I were to hazard a guess Kempeitai are likely to get a bump up to 16 or 17 while maybe Aragoto and Keisotsu gets bumped to 15.
    Any other unit getting a buff is more likely going to be because the unit is getting specific attention to detail, but given how high CC already is on JSA melee units I sort of doubt it.
     
  19. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Wouldn't that kind of be wishlisting, by definition? JSA as a faction has always had somewhat questionable thematic cohesiveness as a faction, and not in a way that feels intentional like QK or CA, and the Uprising changes might have made it worse. I always have felt like the Karakuri feel out of place in terms of both visual style and profile style (though they're looking to be a huge winner in N4), and the bikes don't feel quite like the belong in a game about small scale black ops in the same faction as cybernetically augmented ninjas. I like JSA, and definitely don't think it needs to be a vanilla faction (you're right that the game certainly doesn't need any more of those), but it definitely has the bones for that, were CB to want to do it.
     
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  20. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Very unlikely. BS12 is decidedly elite for skirmishers, and MA5 Oniwaban would encroach on Shinobu.