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Invincible Tactical Doctrine

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Greysturm, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Mutts aren’t broken @Mahtamori just a little difficult to deal with if you don’t bring the right tools.

    Just shoot them from further than 10” and use MSV2 to limit movement.
    Plenty of players here have presented creative ideas for doing so.

    If you end up coming within 10”, well, you get to reset and make a bts save.

    If what you’ve posted here is any indicator, I would recommend being a little more aggressive in your first turn removal of them. That would go a long ways towards avoiding jammers that get tucked into hard-to-reach places.

    I’ve done write-ups in other areas on how to deal with ghazi. Plenty of players don’t have much trouble against them, if this forum or any games I’ve played are an indicator.

    Oh, and a lot of great Haqq lists only take 2-3 Mutts, so you don’t always have to deal with 4.
     
    Jonno likes this.
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @oldGregg we've had that conversation before. They're about as broken as you can make something using CB's limitations, and that's saying quite a bit. That Haqq otherwise is fairly... meh... is what keeps them in line. The issue here is that IA is supremely bad at handling them to the point of the faction itself nearly being made unplayable as a result.
    That most Haqq players are not good at handling them doesn't really offer much comfort to someone who's got to deal with having the world's best Haqq player in their meta, and it's really annoying that what seems to be the correct way to handle them and keep playing the HI style is to switch to OSS.

    And no, lack of aggression is never the problem here. It's the most common cause of me losing.
     
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  3. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    According to you. And you're wrong.
    Solutions exist. I don't buy this. And others have given plenty of options.
    Which Haqq players are you referring to?
    Who? I've got a person or two I could think of as being on top, but I took a look at your ITS profile and didn't see them. If they really are the best player, (for Haqq), I have a pretty strong suspicion that Ghazi aren't the problem here ...
    You seem to be finding answers to your own problems ... Be less aggressive and stop running into jamming zones?
     
  4. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Then what are the most broken units in the game? Because Ghazi come with a ridiculous package of tools for their price point. And Symbiomates are getting nerfed, so they don't count anymore.

    You can't assume the player using the Ghazi is an idiot who will leave them exposed and vulnerable. They require a massively disproportionate amount of resources to their cost to deal with their kit, and the penalty for not doing so is far more severe than any of the other units in their price range.
     
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  5. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    SymbioMates haven’t been nerfed yet so ... and we don’t even know what the nerf will really be, do we?

    And if we’re talking about best unit for the points, I’d put the hunzakut FO or LGL ahead of ghazi. Plenty of other great, cheap, units in the game.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    As much as I hate pulling ranking, try going to ITS ranking and look at the world wide ranking. Click the first Swede you see.

    Thing is, I am inclined to take his word for it regardless of ranking, because he's able to handle some very fierce opposition in our meta. Not easily, but consistently. When he tells me there was very little I could have done, at all, to shift the odds enough to ever get good, let alone even, odds at getting to the objective. And this is, of course, after having applied all of the advice commonly given to players who have problems with Muttas (not withstanding that I accidentally deployed my two Zhencha in the exclusion zone and we didn't notice until after the game).

    As you'll note, I have moderated my tone on Haqq significantly after my talk with him, but it doesn't change that there is a serious problem with the matchup and I'm less inclined to point at Haqq or Muttas being the cause of the problem and the fact that IA was never given sufficient tools to deal with enough problems being the cause.
     
  7. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Sorry to intrude, but has CB said SymbioMates are going to be nerfed? If that's true color me happy, although missed that announcement.
     
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  8. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    There was a source of leaks on 4chan a few weeks ago that gave info about the stuff featured in Daedalus. Althougth many people was sceptic at first, so far most of the things said are proving to be right.

    Therefore, according to the source, symbiomates are changing and instead they give total immunity and a buff to ARM/BTS for that order. More or less. We will see soon how the rule ends up, meanwhile take it with a grain of salt.
     
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  9. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Thanks for the response!
     
  10. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Why are we talking about Mutts in Tactica thread :o Lets not become overly defensive for such a topic.

    Instead, did anyone used Haidao as an independant solo unit? I found having a 1.99 Wound solid gunfighter engineer in my backyard, good for last minute breakthrough.

    And Red Fury deserves some attention too. I find he's great fun when facing 1W-based factions.. ;)
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Haidao as true Wildcard would've been... a thing :shedssingletear:
     
  12. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Like there's not enough soils upon Shang Ji's grave.. :P
     
    #52 ObviousGray, Mar 12, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    We don't have upfield engineers. We have one HI engineer who has BTS 0 and is exceptionally vulnerable to Ghazi.


    I am exceptionally curious as to what your tables look like. Care to provide pictures?
     
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  14. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Guys please respect the effort and energy of the original poster and stay on topic and not argue among yourselves.
     
    Galdera likes this.
  15. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Arguing about whether or not they're broken is out of place, however discussing specific threat and how to best deal with them is the kind of things you'd expect to see in a tactica. Besides, it helps highlights the sectorial main challenge when it comes to list building: opportunity cost.

    Sure, all factions have to make choices at some point, this is what makes list building interesting in the first place after all, but none have the aggravating list of weaknesses of IA associated with the very high point cost across the whole roster, on top of wildcard restrictions. (well the knights kinda do have the same issues, but they're not exactly faring better).
    The result is that we have a stupidly long list of auto-include tools we kinda need if we don't want to get screwed in some specific match-ups (hacking heavy lists and E/M rain comes to mind), then a few others if we want at least some tactical flexibility, and as always the specific things we'll need to do the mission. And we can barely afford half of them, let alone some redudancy, which add another weakness to the sectorial.

    In short, it's not just about dealing with the mutts. It's building your list with the tools it needs to deal with the mutts while having the ones needed to do the mission, as well as dealing with everything else. Even if you accept that half your problems will be solved by shooting them in the face with slightly above average odds, it's a bloody headache to try and solve the other half...
     
  16. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    Stuff like this reinforces in my mind that the whole of last year was one big fuckup as far as yu jing goes, uprising shit the bed so they had to throw IA out there half baked.
    Now we can live in the surety that nothing will be done to adjust anything because having a living rulebook and entirely electronic rules distribution actual makes it harder to change things.
     
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  17. Greysturm

    Greysturm Well-Known Member

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    Fireteams up, any comments or suggestions into what else to add to the táctica?
     
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  18. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    Yeah, you could import the fireteam examples as a list from Infinity Army Builder. Visually looks greater and it helps to catch the idea with just a glimpse.

    And the most important one: It's said HARIS instead of Harris. Just one R.
     
  19. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Boy, the thread is becoming better and better. Keep up the good work comrade @Greysturm !
     
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  20. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    Options to take out muttas
    • Zhanshi LGL
    • Zencha (stealth)
    • Hulang (stealth and EM especulative)
    • Taisheng (Stun speculative)
    • Lu duan (stealth)
    • sat-lock via sniffer +especilative or guided misiles
    Of course all of them feel like a waste of resources, and some things can go really wrong. specailly due to the direct templates of the mutta