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How much of your list never changes?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Randomcallsign, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. Randomcallsign

    Randomcallsign Well-Known Member

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    After seeing the Q1 data showing most used units in ITS tourneys I got curious to see how much of everyone's approach to an army varies depending on the mission.
    Do you have a certain core costing X points that you almost always take and then "round out" depending on mission requirements? Do you blow it up and start from scratch with every list?
    Are there certain armies where that core might be significantly higher or lower?
     
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Oh man... thats a tough question. I think it really depends on the army/sectorial im playing. If im doing MO, then I rarely have "staples" in that sectorial, other than maybe the hospitaller doctor or the KHD. but in Varuna, maybe about 75% of my list is always the same.
     
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  3. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    We wrote a bit about it over in the DBS subforum. When I play DBS, I'm usually bringing the same thing, unless I'm just messing around (which can be a lot of fun). When I play Haqqislam on the other hand? Two lists are rarely similar.
     
  4. Ankaa

    Ankaa Well-Known Member

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    Just speaking for myself, this is exactly what I tend to do. Granted the only army I play right now is Hassassin Bahram, but I have a stock, "all-comers" list that I'm super comfortable playing with and will then adjust the last unit or two depending on what I need for the mission.
     
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  5. Randomcallsign

    Randomcallsign Well-Known Member

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    Personally, with USARF I usually find myself with a pretty standard first 150 points or so.
    Grunt link team equipment varies depending on the mission/deployment rules.
    Two foxtrot FO's
    Rosie
    Desperado
    Maverick
    From their it gets fleshed out. Based on my meta I've seen some chunks get much larger than that in certain armies.
    One Tohaa player routinely takes nearly the same first 220-250 points and just fine tweaks the very end of his lists.
    Nomads on the other hand, seem to a total crapshoot as to what I'll see put down on the table.
     
  6. Randomcallsign

    Randomcallsign Well-Known Member

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    I was theorycrafting a few VIRD lists myself to build up a shopping list for a Varuna army and I found myself having the same experience.
     
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    It's rare that I don't start an Ariadna list without an HMG Spetsnaz, a pair of Chasseurs, and one or more Irmandinhos
     
  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    It's tough because their core link team is really really good, so it's hard not to take. outside of that I find that I have a very board-controlly play style so I'm always going to take 3 Helots.

    I think part of it is a lack of Heavy Infantry or, generally, 2 wound pieces.

    Of course the exception to all of this is if I want to take a TAG. then the list changes quite a bit.
     
  9. Breadsmith

    Breadsmith New Member

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    I'm bad, but every vanilla Nomads/Bakunin list I make has a MSR Sin Eater.
     
  10. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    I've switched recently to OSS from playing vanilla CA, so I can only confidiently say about the latter, but basically it comes down to a bunch of semi-autoinclude units, from which you decide if I play 1 combat grup or two, then what big heavy hitter to put in the list, then if I drop some of the top choices from the list for some reason, fill it all out with cheerleaders and you're good to go.

    Heavies:
    1)Charontid HMG MSV3 Lieutenant and Anathematics Hacker Lieutenant, are basically top choices for me when it comes to CA, pick one depending on mission/opposing faction/table/etc, they get their job done and then some more.
    2)Avatar and Sphinx - they demand a fine balance of highly agressive and very safe execution, are very good at dealing lots of damage, but can go down really easy if your opponent has the tools and knows what they're doing, on a side note, I prefer not to use those in missions where you get points for killing/surviving, and instead use agressive models which are as cheap as possible and go with Anathematics for maximum saftey and late-game push.
    3)Overdron/Xeodron + Sogorat with Full Auto L2 Feuerbach - if I want to go overboard on heavies I would pick one of those and add to an EI aspect of my choosing, They're pretty good as an additional Heavy firepower platform, but not good enogh to be the only hard-hitter in a list. (about Sogorat it is purely theory on my part, but it seems pretty great)

    General no-brainers:
    1) Q-drone HMG and Noctifer ML are just about the best guns you can get in CA for their points - they are your best ARO pices, Q-drone with supportware will deal with almost any ARO you might encounter, and Noctifer is great at surgical strikes stacking that -12, or even going on a rampage with assault pistol.
    2) Daturazi and Ikadrones - those are your best cheerleaders, capable of trading up with expensive enemy units and protecting your heavies in close quarters, never leave home with at least two in some combination, espescially if I want to play more than 1 combat group.
    3) R-drone and Imetron - secondary cheerleaders, though sometimes get in the list over the besties above, mainly for saving points, and an autoinclude if you want to effectively play 2 combat groups.
    4) Top support units - Bit&KISS and Kurgat shotgun - counter hacking and disposable ARO, cheap as chips engineer with mines, and most of the time there are no models with wounds worth healing. Honorable mention with Sogorat - Liberto minelayer, it's just the best thing CB did for vanilla CA for a long time, cheap as chips, can trade effectively, blocks paths to your deployment, can even take a wound and keep being annoying for the turn, also great at hiding your Shrouded FO's if you're gonna bother using those, and 1 SWC isn't that big of a deal for most CA lists.

    5)Honorable mentions - Maakrep HMG, Speculo Killer, Rodok HMG, Pretas, Cune Jager - get their job done, but not as efficiently as alternatives, still viable though.

    And pretty much evrything else is taken if I need something specific for a mission or want to surprise my opponent with less conventional tactics.
     
  11. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    When I start a JSA list, about 185 points of it start filled, and of those, about 170 are almost never removed. There are so many requirements in that faction to make a list work that it's really hard to play without them, my starting units look about like this:

    Japanese Secessionist Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    KEMPEI (Multispectral Visor L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    KEISOTSU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 17)
    SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 40)
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)

    3.5 SWC | 186 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The only changes that frequently get made are to the last Keisotsu in the link or the HD depending if I run an LT who requires CoC to work, and the next unit under consideration is almost always a Rui Shi for me.

    For ASA, I don't think I have a definite list, but I will always have at least 4 regulars, one of whom will often be a Sensor/Minelayer, 2 Nagas, Bagh Mari MSR, Dart, and a Bulleteer.
     
  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    My vanilla YJ lists for the longest time were pretty static. Daofei, two Guilang, usually a Zuyong HMG LT, Zanshi Doc and Engineer, Weibing REM, and then some other beatstick like a Yan Huo.

    One of my standard JSA lists hasn't really changed since before Uprising: Samurai 7. Oyama, Domaru Spitfire, Haramaki/Tanko ML, 2x Haramaki/Tanko, O-Yoroi, Yojimbo (and that was the major change, used to be Musashi), Tokusetsu Doc, Tokusetsu Eng, Keisotsu hacker.

    All my Invincible Army lists seem to start with Daoying, Tai Sheng, Zuyong TacA HMG, Zuyong TacA combi, Haidao KHD, and often the Shang Ji HRL.

    Varuna lists seem to start with the ORC+KamauMSR+Fusilier Core and Patsy+Kamau+VarunaMachinist Haris:
    Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]8
    ORC (Varuna Div.) (Multiterrain: Aquatic/Jungle, Stealth) HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 45)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    BIPANDRA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
    FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)

    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    KAMAU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)

    5 SWC | 207 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  13. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    It varies wildly, like for Tunguska, you generally need to take a CORE IMO, for me its either Hollowmen or Securitate, and build from there. Typically an interventor HD+ makes every list as well.

    In vanilla normally its something like a Zero, Massai, Interventor, 3 morlocks, and pick 2 of the following, Swast Red Fury, Kriza HMG, Intruder HMG/MSR. After that the list is made to fit missions. Its been a loooong time since I played Bakunin or Corrigidor.

    Aleph varies a great deal, though Mk 2/MK 5 is pretty much a given. In steel I surpisingly don't auto include pheonix, though I still do pretty much auto include Macheon.
     
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  14. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Hm, interesting question, but never change is to harsh. Most of the time would be a better wording.

    [​IMG] Tohaa
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    [​IMG] SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36)
    [​IMG] SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    [​IMG] CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)

    5 SWC | 195 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    [​IMG] Nomads
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]6 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] KRIZA BORAC HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)

    4 SWC | 176 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    [​IMG] Onyx Contact Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] KERR-NAU (UPGRADE: White Noise) Plasma Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON K1 Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    3.5 SWC | 178 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
  15. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    It depends of what I feel to play. I have some list cores but they are rarely above 100 points. I prefer to feel free in what I play to be free in my game and harder to foresee. I have units I love and I'm known to love and field often. But they are lone units only. The mix is rarely the same except when I decide to play an old list and change one or two units I don't want to play in this combination anymore.
    This way, I can bait my opponents. The Swiss Guard is obvious when 70pts are missing? Ok, let's play a Croc and a KotHS and pretend the last one is only a Kamau FO. So the Croc isn't expected and make some havok while my opponent doesn't understand why he has missed this. Even good players can loss the tracks when one trooper do things unexpected. And then the squishy Kamau becomes a mighty knight with tricks and a heavy weapon.
    Pretending to play lists I could really play and play with the codes helps me most of the time to have an edge against opponents who have automatisms or think my sectorial should be played by only two or three ways. Against the others, it is just a matter of skills and possibilities.
     
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  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's a very good point.

    It's also why I was unhappy with the old Paradiso changes to Steel Phalanx. Before Paradiso, Pat and a Garuda HMG were *exactly* the same cost as Achilles. That was a hilarious surprise, dropping an extra ~30pts on the table, then having 'Achilles' turn into 3x Holoechoes.
     
  17. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    I start from scratch everytime. I have some go-to favorites that show up often, and I have certain combos, (If I take 'A' I will take 'B'), but nothing that i would say is core. I like to mix it up. I also have a few un-favorites, that I still try and fit on the table every once in a while. I am a cheapskate, and it pains me to see a model I have paid for, never get played.

    Usually I take a look at my collection, and try and figure out what I want to play with this time, and then build the rest of the list around that. Cheap Line infantry cheerleaders are pretty common, but I always add them last, and adjusted to fit in my list.
     
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  18. BLOODGOD

    BLOODGOD Vampire Hunter

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    I'm not sure I've played an Ariadna list since the release of the Spetsnaz without one with an HMG in it. Chasseurs, chain rifle Volunteers, and an engineer with a pair of Muls are almost always next.
     
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  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    I suspect you were speaking for yourself, rather than VIRD in general? It's probably a good indicator to the health of the Sectorial that I only sometimes bring an ORC in a Core team, or the Patsy Haris, though I value both of those and see them as very useful.

    I think my NCA was the only list where I universally started with the same troops:
    • 3 Fugazi
    • Pathfinder
    • 5 Fusiliers
    • Hexa KHD
    • Trauma Doc w/ Palbot
    My Acon varies a lot more, but generally always has:
    • 3 Fugazi
    • Pathfinder
    • 1-2 Nagas
    • Trauma Doc w/ Palbot
    Varuna breaks the mold quite a bit more, but has a familiar backbone:

    • 2 Fugazi
    • 4 Fusiliers
    • Kamau MULTI Sniper
    • 1-2 Helots
    • Trauma Doc w/ Palbot
    • Zulu Cobra Sensor

    These are all cheap "modules" of play that provide very useful support (primarily Orders and defense, but you also get some very important roles like button-pushing, counter-hacking, Sensor.

    The Varuna list is unique in that it actually includes a major gunfighter as one of my stock choices. It's true though... The Kamau MULTI Sniper is very good, very easy to fit into a list, and doesn't have many downsides. I can imagine making a list without her (you can buy a lot for 32 points) but she's definitely a defining asset of the Sectorial.
     
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  20. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    A very interesting question.

    If the question goes to "what never ever ever change", I would say nothing. I'm a vanilla player so I have access to a lot of different troops. Some scenerio ask for very specific list or allow for different strategy (like direct action mission needing no specialist or firefight favoring AD). So time to time I will build list without my "core"

    I play one army per season. In X it's vanilla nomad, it was vanilla Aleph in IX and vanilla Ariadna in VIII.

    With Ariadna my core was :
    Ariadna
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]7
    FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    CHASSEUR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    CHASSEUR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)

    3 SWC | 146 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    2 volunteers for orders, 3 SK for objectives, 2 HMG for firepower.

    With Aleph my core was :
    ALEPH
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4
    PROXY Mk.1 Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    ACHILLES Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
    NAGA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)

    3 SWC | 174 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    I used it for most Achilles lists but had a different base for Marut list. Lot of specialist. If Achilles is lieutenant, then I take some CoC. If not, I usually take machaon and may change the mk1 in engineer for some TR drone


    This year, with Nomad my core is :
    Nomads
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42)
    MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)
    ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)

    2 SWC | 110 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    If I have enough points at the end, I may change the zero hacker into a heckler hacker (for better BS and cybermine)

    In all 3 armies, I end up with a core including at least 3 midfield unit. Being an infiltrated specialist is a huge advantage when it come to order efficiency and it has become a cructch for me (that's why I will likely go for an army with much less midfield specialist for next season)
     
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