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How competitive are MO?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Context, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Of course the SERAPH HMG does well. I think its one of the best TAGs in the whole game. It sacrificed the strong ARO of a multi-HMG for superior mobility and reduced cost. Often a great trade.

    This data seems to support my theory for MO. Use defensive links. They are pretty great and easy to use well. Aggressive HI links are quite hard to use especially with all the counters various factions have nowadays. I might have to changed my opinion of DeFeresen. Now that he can linked with a KHD + tinbot, his viability seems to have greatly improved.

    Also, I'm happy to see the OS HRL is so frequently used and doing well. Its a fantastic addition to MO.
     
    #361 Death, Jan 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  2. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Well, outside of the BF albedo, I'm not that surprised. I think the red units are here for the exact reasons @Teslarod said. HI core linkteams are pretty hard to use and without the old HMG and Doctor in it, Magisters' links tend to be a bit all-in. Once you decide to charge, there is no coming back, so if you decide to do this during the first turn, there is a good chance a good player will break you into pieces.

    I think also that shows that new MO is performing way better than the old one. Hospitallers with AP CCW are at best at a 1.0 w/l ratio and the performance showed is highly impacted by this too. Just like I said elsewhere, Hospitallers aren't anymore the hot thing for a core. They are good as a Haris, you can make a core with them during a game with Santiagos if you really need those boni but in this case, you should really take a Teuton Haris to have some defensive tools to be your lifeguard.

    However, I don't think we are in such need for attack pieces using core boni. Our knights are already great on their own, having some of them spread across the DZ extend the thread and reduces the impact of an unbeatable ARO piece.
     
    eciu likes this.
  3. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    Actually the Hospitaliers dont look so hot to trot as a haris. The haris doc is performing middling at best.
     
  4. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Yeah, but I think this is due to the lists it's put in that really doesn't work well. But I can be wrong, never tested the Hospi Haris so far but I'm planning to do so in the near future.

    I see also that Montesa and KotHS aren't recorded. I wonder why, they have a lot of potential, even in this sectorial. I'll need to play them more in the coming months.
     
  5. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    I blame quite a few of the list entries and MO's bad performance overall on the LT and order monkey limitations.

    With how bad the other choices are, Joan or Santiago just perform much better. Then you spam what you have available to get up to a decent Order pool add the thing you really want and never look back.

    There also has been a massive drop in Limited Insertion's popularity (far from all of it due to more Tactical Window tournaments). Suggesting people either don't like the way Infinity plays with one Combat group or the balance is off.

    Disagree on that being anywhere near clear cut. Imho the defensive Link is the only MO list option that lets you run a backfield Lt and something else (i.e. Seraph HMG) and those appear to be the lists that are doing well. Considering Seraph lists will usually be Seraph+OS Core+Lt it makes sense they share a similar track record.
    You're pretty much forced to deliver your Lt to your opponent with a Hospitaler Core or at least leave him pretty exposed in your DZ, since your screening choices are rather limited.

    Looking at the numbers for DeFersen for a sec.
    It's the non Lt Profile. Hospitaler Link Fillers aren't doing great. Joan DA CCW is not doing great for some reasons while AP CCW is. So why is that, assuming we're not just looking at RNG?
    Opening up all numbers, people haven't been running the Hospitaler Combi fillers much and when they have they have been doing terrible (0.3 although super low sample size).
    Hospitaler BSG is at 1.07, so doing fairly well. Hospitaler Doctor Haris is 0.96, average for MO performance.
    Both Hospitaler HMGs are slighly above average at 1.0, so with other Profiles likely to link with them in a core link doing worse what are we looking at here for Gabe?
    Maybe Gabe is just good in this Meta, more hackable targets, less KHDs?
     
    #365 Teslarod, Jan 31, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  6. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I'm not so sure. I think this comes more for lazyness and fear of trying crazy things just for fun. I've played Vanilla this summer for a while to try Magisters as real WB units and you know what? They are really good at this job. So I think that lists using this instead/in addition to the usual use of Magisters in MO lists would create a lot of diversity. Same thoughts about FK in duo and FK FO (lt or not). For now, I see that like the 50% obvious things that work in MO has been tested and approved by success rates. I need more testing games to see what really works and mostly how to combine this.

    I need to play @daboarder 's lists he played at Novacore last year too. Could give me some feelings and ideas I lack at the moment.
     
    SpectralOwl likes this.
  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    upload_2020-1-31_18-48-26.jpeg
     
  8. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Eciu, real talk mate.
    Why the hell do you bother asking man? we both know you arent going to like my list, you arent going to make it work and you are just going to whine, whinge, and moan about how it couldnt possibly do well.

    Better yet you'll send me a vaguely passive aggressive PM and moan about it some more. So please, do us a favour and dont ask next time, because you and the other ne'er good enoughers are the reason I have been away from here for 6 months, your incessant negativity and complaints make me hate this place.
     
  9. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Why it is that you always appear to know what plebs will do ?

    If you find a polite request to put bit more effort to spelling/grammar over PM as a passive aggressive then you must have skin thinner than spiny mouse.

    Yet you come back (apparently regularly), is it a symptom of codependency ?

    Funny enough my post was not directed to you at all ^^
     
    daboarder likes this.
  10. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    upload_2020-1-31_23-28-27.png

    If this is not "mixed signals" then I have no idea what is.
     
  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    On the bright side: I shouldn't even be here now.

    See you all around very late April!
     
    Teslarod likes this.
  12. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    So since you already appear to be regretting it despite the 6 month vacation...

    Don't think complaining about people being people, having their own weird ass oppionons about the most random shit, is a receipe for success on the internet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Daily reminder there's a handy ignore button. Other than that happy venting mate.
     
  13. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    TheDiceAbide likes this.
  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Yup, decided to use it again, not a huge fan, but sometimes its just not worth it anymore
     
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