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Holy Grail of the Ariadna Metagame: Kill that damn Kamau Sniper

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by ZlaKhon, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    I haven't encountered a fully linked Kamau Sniper with Vanilla Ariadna yet, but it has been on my mind quite a bit since different from other instances of linked MSV2 Snipers, it is very common in VIRD lists and shuts down my go-to play-style pretty hard.

    Brute force doesn't work see e.g. a Spetsnazs in cover vs. the fully linked Kamau in cover, both in good range:

    Active Player
    34.20% Kazak Spetsnazs (Camo) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
    9.43% Kazak Spetsnazs (Camo) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead)

    Failures
    22.70% Neither player succeeds

    Reactive Player
    43.10% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kazak Spetsnazs (Camo) (Unconscious)
    21.64% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kazak Spetsnazs (Camo) (Dead)

    The known answers for this situation are

    - Ignore it: viable in some missions / table setups only, but definitely worth considering since the opportunity cost might be a lot lower than for other options

    - Spec. fire: potentially an elegant solution, but the only piece mobile enough to potentially pull this off without spending an absurd number of orders would be the Foxtrott LGL and even that guy has a 17.35% chance of inflicting a wound on the Kamau when in good range (6.1% in -3 range band of up to 24 inches). In other words, The Foxtrott is likely to spend two orders moving and then maybe 5 orders on shooting with a very high volatility i.e. you might spend all orders in the group on the guy and the job isn't done. I don't think Traktor Muls or Krakots have a decent chance of getting into range and even Margot of Mirage 5 (which would completely mess up my list building) only has a 25% change in good range to take down the Kamau.

    - Attack the Kamau or its fellow link members with Uxia or an infiltrating Grunt: great option, unless the VIRD player had the option of deploying deep into his DZ with some Helots watching your approach. Definitely my preferred option if somehow possible, but certainly not the only trick I'd want to have access to.

    Other than that the only other known answer is to shoot using coordinated orders. This makes a lot of sense when considering other factions that can easily put down 4 expendable troops with Panzerfausts like Daylami. For Vanilla Ariadna, I wasn't sure how to properly employ this tactics until I came across this thread: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/delay-vs-multiple-activated-models.34153/#post-270277

    Unless I am mistaken, you can simply activate 3 Camo markers (e.g. a Spetsnaz HMG, Scots Guard ML, Cateran Sniper) and a non-camo spearhead (Vet. Kazak HMG or Black Jack if you want the punch or a simple line trooper if you don't want to risk loosing an important unit, which is what I'd suggest). In that case, the Kamau has the option to Dodge (probably his best bet), to shoot the spearhead or to delay against one of the Camo Markers. If he shoots the spearhead with a good chance of killing it but the Spetsnaz has a 35% chance of killing it, the Scots Guard has a 45% chance of killing it and the Cateran has a 27% chance of killing it. It should also be noted that even if the Kamau survives, there is a fair chance that the guts roll forces him to go prone, which is probably almost as good since you get to set up for it standing up next turn then.

    The best thing about this tactics is that if you move in and out of LoF with your Camo pieces and things really didn't go your way, you can simply recamo and do it over (possibly requiring a new spearhead and the Cateran can't recamo but still). Also it can probably be set up with 1-2 orders of movements and 1 coordinated order to shoot. The redo with recamo would be 2 more orders, but you should be able to "solve" the situation with roughly 5 orders and at worst the loss of two of your spearhead models, which are likely some line trooper that you didn't need anyways.

    I feel that this take on the coordinated order tactics is the best way of dealing with this new meta without having to drastically adjust lists and follow a general "work with the tools you have" mentality. And once the Kamau is removed, the game should start to swing in Ariadnas favor relatively fast as VIRD isn't a fan of a midfied full of mines and loads of chain rifles running towards them.
     
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  2. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Have you considered using Mirage 5?
    One other possibility is to force VIRD to play first and saturate the middle of the table with E/Maulers, mines and Camo markers so their few guys who can actually do something except shooting in ARO or playing cards in the back will have a hard time at just surviving while trying to get some objectives. Those guys dead, the core will be forced to move and then, you'll be able to kill them for good. VIRD has tools to deal with this kind ambush but they aren't in the lists VIRD players seem to love to play.
     
  3. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Dynamo dropping mine in front of Kamau (which then can be shoot by someone else) ?
    K-9 with Strelok ?
     
  4. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    For me the big picture here is the meta game i.e. wanting to win a 5 round event and in that context I find Mirage 5 or most Ariadnan AD troops for that matter to be too table dependent. Also VIRD can set up amazing defensive perimeters, I don't think AD is likely doing the trick against a savy opponent.

    The second point is definitely valid and is pretty much what I meant by "ignore if possible". The opportunity cost of having to move around more carefully with your dudes in the midfield and maybe some cautious movements for non-camo troops are less of an opportunity cost than the motions you'd need to go through to get rid of the Kamau.
     
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  5. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    The Dynamo is great input! If that works, thats a very easy way of dealing with the situation.

    What is your idea about the Strelok K9? I think a savy VIRD player would declare discover on the first option and then shoot you down long before you can get into CC.
     
  6. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Well-Known Member

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    You could always try using Van Zant, either to take out one of the Kamau's link buddies to get rid of that +3 MOD or to open up a path for Uxia/infiltrating grunts to get into the Kamau's face.
     
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  7. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    Not to be a debbie downer, but you can't coordinate a Spetsnaz, Scots Guard, and Cateran at the same time. The Cateran is irregular. You can do a Spetsnaz and Scots Guard plus 2 other regular models.
     
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  8. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Thanks man! I think its way better to realize this now rather than when spending that coordinated order. This might slightly tilt my list building in favor of other troops with long range weapons.
     
    Bellyflop likes this.
  9. Tongfa

    Tongfa ayy lmao ... comrade

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    YOU CAN HOWEVER COORDINATE A BLACKJACK AP HMG, VASSILY and TWO TANKHUNTER MLs.

    BEHOLD COMRADES - THE POWER OF ROCKET SQUAD.

    ROCKET SQUAD (Blackjack DT, WarCor XT)
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    VASSILY Lieutenant (Forward Observer) T2 Marksman Rifle, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
    BLACKJACK AP HMG, Chest Mines, D.E.P. / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 36)
    TANKHUNTER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    TANKHUNTER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    CHASSEUR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    STRELOK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)
    ASSAULT PACK . (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] HANDLER Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (- | 10)
    [​IMG] x3 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (- | 15)
    HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    TANKHUNTER (Chain of Command) AP Rifle, Adhesive Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 30)
    CHASSEUR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    6 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    The beauty of it is that it's a Catch-22 that's not built on hitting percentages. Against the devastating firepower of the Kamau, we can unleash even more devastating firepower with the ARO delay trick (so the Blackjack tanks it like a GOD);

    Blackjack AP HMG Spearhead, with Vassily and the TH ML Boys as supporting cast. That's 2 AP HMG shots, 1 T2 Shot and TWO COUNT EM ON YOUR FINGERS TWO - ONE FOR EACH THUMB - MISSILE LAUNCHER CAREENING DOWN THE FIRELANES LIKE AVENGING GODS.

    It takes a brave Varuna player to allow two missile launchers to hit his core fusiler link (and the doctor/palbot that's like 2" away). And it's the ultimate target analysis paralysis - do I shoot Vassily (fyi - I want Vassily to die - his job is to go crazy, go on suppressive and die like a hero - he's the Ariadnan Su-Jian, monster that he is) or the Blackjack DT who is fairly likely to survive at least one round of shooting with the Kamau.

    Vassily is a revalation for Ariadna players - he's essentially a Spetsnaz with a better gun since T2 just straight kills that shock immune mongrel of a Kamau. The Spets is B15 effective, no dogged and costs 1.5 SWC. Vassily is 3 points cheaper, can fill the role of SWC camo Lt (though realistically I say Vassily really costs 65 points 1 SWC since the TH CoC is VALUE) and has BS13 - only two pips lower than Spets.

    As an afterthought - this list has like 13 camo tokens - not counting the podes. God Bless Cyka Bylat.

    Word to the wise tho - make sure you recamo the MLs + Vassily if they live for your reactive, as trust me - it's not the Kamau you need to watch out for - it's the bloody Zulu's with their Triangulated fire that the f*ck your day up
     
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  10. RasPuto

    RasPuto Member

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    I'm in love. Jesus Christ.
     
  11. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Not an Ariadna player, only a few funny games with old Merovingia, but as all we do, I face the "same problem" against MVL2 (or 3) when playing (most of the times Hassasin or Acontecimento). In the latest case yes, I have the option of "HMG Baghmari in a five members core Fireteam to try put down that nasty Kamau... But this don't work always because the rolling dices or others game difficulties.

    The Grunt with heavy flamethrower isn't a bad choice, even your rival deploy in his table border, the grunt with 1 move could catch the Kamau, the template are about 10 inches or 26 cm, son if the deployement area is 12 inches or 30cm, you will hit the kamau, and brobably burns. Still you really don't need to kill the Kamau, only one or two of his fireteam companions. If the Grunt don't work o dislike you that option, the camo troups (specially with mines are really devastating to VIRD) you can sneak between the enemy camos (if they reveals to discover you can kill or ignore them, so "win-win").

    Most of the time I' use the "go with a camo and kill some Kamau friends" before trying to put down the Kamau himself.

    Have confidence in your camos.
     
  12. b1ackheart

    b1ackheart Well-Known Member

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    This is a great list I might use the same concept for a TAK sectoral list
     
  13. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    oldGregg likes this.
  14. Captain Nevercrit

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    Spetsnaz parachutist with boarding shotgun. Speculative grenades solve a lot of problems.

    The only problem is getting him on the board without Kamau having line of sight as you hae to pick board edge before the Kamue deploys I have had him pop up behind walls and grenade an Asura off the board.
     
  15. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, with Specnaz, you have 33% more shots than with Vassily, better BS effectively, it's 10% harder to save vs HMG, better range which usually means you can stay outside lots of +3 weapons for enemy. And you need to spend less orders to get in optional range maybe.

    Not saying that Vasilly is bad, haven't tried him. T2 is very nice(when enemy fail save), dogged is not bad at all, always great vs that lucky crit(unless enemy has shock)...but so far, Specnaz is bread and butter for me.

    Would you take him example instead of vet kazak?
     
  16. Captain Nevercrit

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    Vet Kazak HMG in link should prevail on active turn. B5 to B2 should win out. Kazak can take a punch too and possibly risk plinking other members of the team making the next order a little easier.

    Vass is big game hunter and shouldn't go toe to toe against anyone with 6th sense and ideally not MSV. He loves big dumb heavy infantry, TAG's and the little guys with no wound; incap. Dr's can't heal Pvt Jimmy if he has a plate sized exit wound in his chest.

    I'm quickly becoming a huge fan of Dynamo and as mentioned, its great for flinging mines up the board. Perfect for breaking the weaker members of a fireteam or catching Camo with its pants down. Dynamo are a support piece and really cheap for what they can do. The FO Dynamo has been man of the match for me as a button pusher
     
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  17. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Not an Ariadna player, so I guess my advice might be terrible, but isn't an Antipode pack a decent option? Not the most order efficient option, especially considering potential VIRD perimeter defense options they might have to run through, but super jumping makers that can move 12 inches as a synchronized group would be tough for a kamau to stop all by himself. Though I guess parking the kamau in a place where an antipode base can't fit is a pretty easy way to shut this strategy down.

    That explosion fun time list from up above seems really fun, though, and it also happens to have an antipode pack in it anyway.
     
    Tanan likes this.
  18. Captain Nevercrit

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    You had me at throwing wolves at the Kamau.
     
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  19. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Contractor for the Tartary Army Korps

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    There used to be this guy in our meta that took Teucer to every game. In the days before TAK I almost always took 3 FO line kazaks and used a coordinated order to flash pulse him, it was really effective since at least 1 would usually get through
     
  20. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Just skimming the thread. Came across this -
    And read it as this -
    Now I can't get the damn visual out of my mind.
     
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