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Holoprojector L3 and ODD (who said Patrocle?)

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Ayadan, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Replicate does not mean that it has them.

    Remember that the whole point of the Holoecho is to pretend to have equipment so that your opponent can be deceived.

    If you were to be able to replicate a mine, that mine would still be fake and wouldn't do anything that a mine would normally do (such as test range by attempting to place templates)
     
  2. Minos

    Minos Νίκη ἢ Θάνατος
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    The replication of a distorted image is not a clear image...
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but that's using year 2019 real life logic, that's not the same as game rules, particularly not for a piece of equipment from the future that's able to replicate visuals and sound of a human being through walls sufficiently to pass a shallow inspection. Particularly when it needs to be able to fool deep inspection from orbital satellites sufficiently that they say "yeah, there actually is something in there".
    Who knows, maybe the sensors will show that the distorted image that the echo is projecting doesn't distort the bullet trace nor heat imagery like a real ODD would?

    Point is, the game still needs to inform us what's happening. If it doesn't, then it isn't happening. Unless CB says in a FAQ "no wait, you're right, we messed up Patroclus' echoes should totally have ODD/Mimetism as well!" like they did with Jammer and ODD/Mimetism MODs. (Except they wouldn't admit they were wrong, of course)
     
  4. Minos

    Minos Νίκη ἢ Θάνατος
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    That's exactly my request. Until a FAQ, nothing can be confirmed in a way or another.
     
  5. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding holo 1 (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Holoprojector_L1_(State)):

    So it doesn't matter which trooper you are immitating using Holo L1, you use your own profile (your equipment, your skill) not the one you are immitating

    Regarding holoechoes : "This State does not affect Automatic Special Skills or Automatic Equipment." (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Holoecho)

    So Holoechoes has no effect on automatic skills or equipement. So no mimetism or ODD.

    So let's sum up.

    Holoechoes of patroclus are not true trooper so they have no Troop Profile with ODD or mimetism
    Holoechoes "does not affect Automatic Special Skills or Automatic Equipment" so no ODD or mimetism from this side either

    So if you shoot a fake holoechoes, you will have 0 modifier at resolution


    Except from the fluff POW you are forgetting one thing : if any part of the image is hit, it dissapear. So the distorsion does not protect the holoecho
     
  6. Minos

    Minos Νίκη ἢ Θάνατος
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    I have no problem with Holo 1and always had the same comprehension of the rule.

    I think you're reading wrong. "The Holoechoe state does not affect (...)" means the bearer has always them active, regardless of the Holoechoe state. Nothing more.
    Unless the word "affect" has another meaning in English. In French, the word is clear (affecter).
    So it has nothing to do with the other Holoechoes.
     
  7. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    The thread has not moved for a few day, should we sum it up and add it to the unsolved list while waiting for an official answer ?
     
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  8. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Do we aggree on this description ?

    Holoechoes : which skill/equipment can they use ? (ODD, stealth)

    Original topic : https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/holoprojector-l3-and-odd-who-said-patrocle.828/

    Situation 1 : Patroclus (ddo version) has 2 holoechoes. One of the holoecho is the target of a BS Attack. During the resolution step, which modifier is applied to the BS attack : -6 or 0 ?

    Answers :
    A) 0. Holoechoes have no profile/equipment and only reproduce them "for show". If the oponent ask what modifier applies before the resolution step, I can answer -6 for DDO but at the resolution step, only the true equipement/skill applies (which mean no equipment/skill so modifier)
    B) -6. Holoechoes reproduce skills and equipement from patroclus, so they benefit from DDO at the resolution step

    Situation 2 : Patroclus (ddo version) has 2 holoechoes. He move using stealth. Does the holoechoes also benefit from stealth ?

    Answers :
    A) No. Holoechoes have no profile/equipment and only reproduce them "for show". So they don't have stealth.
    B) Yes. Holoechoes perform the exact same skill as Patroclus, which mean they perform "move using stealth".
    C) Yes. Holoechoes reproduce skills and equipement from patroclus, so they benefit from stealth
     
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  9. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    @Arkhos94 perhaps change 1.B) and 2.C) " and non-Deployable weapons or pieces of Equipment represented by a Marker or model " instead of "and equipment"

    The rule only mentions equipment actually on the table (I used to totally misread that as all equipment myself) and that argument hinges pretty heavily on the distinction.
     
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  10. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @DukeofEarl for the feedback, I corrected 1B and 2C and posted it on the unsolved thread
     
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