Hassassin Theorycrafting Redux

The first thing that stands out to me is that you dropped the doctor. It always feels weird to me to make a Haqqislam list without at least one doctor to leverage our strength in recovery. In addition, right now all but one of your specialists are hackers. I worry that you could be in for a bad time if you face an a opponent like CA that could brute force through your hacking network and decimate your specialists.

 

After the increase of +2 points on my beloved Daylamis I had to make some changes, but I manage to deploy a list pretty much alike.

Spoiler: Before

HassasinSaqueo
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GRUPO 1 10 2
MUYIB (Sentido Táctico, Visor X) Lanzacohetes Pesado, Cargas-D ( ) / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 25)
GHULAM (Teniente [+1 Token de Mando]) Fusil, Escopeta Ligera / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 15)
GHULAM (Suboficial) Fusil, Lanzagranadas, Lanzagranadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC. (1 | 15)
ASAWIRA (Médico [+3]) Fusil AP, Escopeta Ligera ( | MediKit) / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (0 | 36)
ASAWIRA Spitfire AP, Nanopulser / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (1.5 | 39)
YARA HADDAD Fusil de Precisión AP / Pistola Pesada(+1R), Arma CC. (0 | 25)
MUYIB (Sentido Táctico, Visor X) Spitfire, Cargas-D ( ) / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 34)
LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Fusil de Precisión Shock, Minas E/M, Cargas-D / Pistola Breaker, Arma CC. (0 | 20)
FIDAY Fusil, Escopeta Ligera, Minas Shock, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 27)
FIDAY Fusil, Escopeta Ligera, Minas Shock, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 27)

GRUPO 2 5 1
DAYLAMI (Camuflaje [1 Uso], Infiltración) Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camuflaje [1 Uso], Infiltración) Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camuflaje [1 Uso], Infiltración) Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camuflaje [1 Uso], Infiltración) Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 8)
MUTTAWI'AH Escopeta de Abordaje, E/Marat, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 9)

5.5 CAP | 304 Puntos

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Spoiler: After

HassasinSaqueo
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GRUPO 1 10 2
MUYIB (Sentido Táctico, Visor X) Lanzacohetes Pesado, Cargas-D ( ) / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 25)
GHULAM (Teniente [+1 Token de Mando]) Fusil, Escopeta Ligera / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 15)
GHULAM (Suboficial) Fusil, Lanzagranadas, Lanzagranadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC. (1 | 15)
ASAWIRA (Médico [+3]) Fusil AP, Escopeta Ligera ( | MediKit) / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (0 | 36)
ASAWIRA Spitfire AP, Nanopulser / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (1.5 | 39)
YARA HADDAD Fusil de Precisión AP / Pistola Pesada(+1R), Arma CC. (0 | 25)
MUYIB (Sentido Táctico, Visor X) Spitfire, Cargas-D ( ) / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 34)
LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Fusil de Precisión Shock, Minas E/M, Cargas-D / Pistola Breaker, Arma CC. (0 | 20)
FIDAY Fusil, Escopeta Ligera, Minas Shock, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 27)
FIDAY Fusil, Escopeta Ligera, Minas Shock, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 27)

GRUPO 2 5 1
DAYLAMI (Camuflaje [1 Uso], Infiltración) Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camuflaje [1 Uso], Infiltración) Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camuflaje [1 Uso], Infiltración) Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camuflaje [1 Uso], Infiltración) Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 8)
MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 5)

5.5 CAP | 300 Puntos

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It is only a minor change, the ghazy with smoke and bs for the chain/emarat cheaper version. Isn't a big deal, but if I want to play Aljabel, them I found myself changing the "doctor" asawira for avicena.

But more or less I hadn't to do several changes in my lists. Of course, probably if we want to play the 4 asawiras list, we could include only 3 daylamis instead of 4 or 5, and problem fixed. Well the ARO it will pretty much the same, but true, the active turn with "coordinated panzerfaust" it will be dropped in efficience.

Best regards.

I love this kind of topics, where we, all, can share our perspective about our "loved sectorial" :)

 

Yes, I don't play a lot the farzan CoC, I play under the asumption "if someone catch my Lt passing throw the 4 daylamis, the ghazi and the rest of the troups, Lt loss it will be the minor of my concerns" :D Of course, some enemy troups with AD or speculative fire could catch him without confront my defensive line, but it isn't something common in my local meta.

I really like the list you posted. I never thought about the humble Ghulam hacker. Barid always eclipses him, but here it is a really good combination: barid defensive pourpouses, and ghulam as "the guy who do spotlight then... fire from the sky (or from a daylami panzerfaust hiting on 14s instead 11s ;) hehehe".

 

Something that's been on my mind for hassassins but which I haven't dialed in yet is a 'many small teams' list. Speaking frankly, I hate playing core links. I'm clumsy with them, they take a lot of time and mental energy for me to move carefully, and I don't like how they limit my tactical options on the table (by concentrating force in once place, they necessarily reduce projectible force in other places).

So, something I'd like to try is a list with an Asawira duo, a haris, and a three-person core. A sort of tohaa-styles list a specialist, gun and utility piece in each link (although probably not smoke in each link because unlike tohaa, hassassins do not have makauls but do have ghazis).

Something like this as an example; the teams would be the Asawira duo, the Yara + Muyib + Doctor Asawira haris, and the Asawira Lt + Ghulam and Barid core.

And hey you could always just fling it all into a core and a haris if you needed I guess.

Teams of Teams
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GROUP 1 9 2 1
YARA HADDAD AP Marksman Rifle / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
MUTTAWIAH Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)
FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
GROUP 2 1 4 1
FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
MUTTAWIAH Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)
5.5 SWC | 300 Points
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Separately, an idea I wanted to test was a list built around a core list that operates in a pure support capacity, just assisting the rest of the list. Something like this, where the idea is that the link is alone in the group and spends six orders each turn;
- laying pitchers
- hacking (incl. spotlight for missile strikes)
- shooting smoke
- spec firing on 8s
- doctoring

The obvious downside here is that the defence is thin; you've got no real AROs and have to stop the enemy with some very thin hacking AROs, mutts on corners and spending your wounds as ablative defence on the grounds you've got regenerating doctors on hand. But it feels worth experimenting with.


Crunches and Twists
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GROUP 1 5
GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
GHULAM (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
GROUP 2 8 3 2
SHAYTANIYAH REMOTE Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
YARA HADDAD AP Marksman Rifle / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
MUTTAWIAH Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)
MUTTAWIAH Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)
FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
6 SWC | 300 Points
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A little disclaimer beforehand:

I’ve started with Infinity back in 2013, buying into Hassassins, but only got around to play two or so games, unfortunately. Only got back into the game with the release of N4 and was playing a lot of Yu Jing/Invincible at first but found my love for Haqqislam and especially Hassassins again shortly after. I’ve been playing kind of regularly since then, around one game a week, but I’m far from being an experienced player, even less so with Hassassins in particular.

I guess that’s my way of saying, take the rest of my post with caution :D

Also, with Hassassins, I’ve only played against CJC and Steel Phalanx so far, so my impressions surely are skewed.

So, playing around a bit, I came up with this list more or less specifically for mindwipe, although I actually haven’t tried it out in that specific scenario yet, I felt like it’s versatile enough for other missions.

Peace of Mind
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GROUP 1 10
GHULAM (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
GOVAD (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
GOVAD Heavy Machine Gun / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 26)

GROUP 23 / 2
FARZAN (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
SHAYTANIYAH REMOTE Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)
DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

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First, the core link. For similar reasons like RobertShepherd, I’m having kind of a hard time managing aggressive core links, but I found they work out for me defensively pretty well. I’m sure this one can be tinkered with to optimize, but the idea is to keep the Lt safe, use the NCO to lay down smoke to either block non-MSV attacks or help advance the more aggressive troops and have the sniper as a kind of overwatch unit. The Barid should be laying down a repeater in an area to annoy the opponent and make use of reactive-turn spotlight or even carbonite, depending on what threat is reaching the repeater. Lastly the Muyib is there to cover more of my DZ or some open corridor with mines and maybe make use of the Panzerfaust if the opportunity presents itself.

Then the Haris. Coming from my inability to maneuver core teams right, I really like a strong Haris as a main force of attack. I know a lot of people seem to prefer Muyibs over Govads, but I like their MSV1, Veteran (especially on the hacker) and the ability to take an HMG with them, for actually not that much of a price point. I love the Asawira (the older models anyways) in every aspect and being Haqq, I thought I should at least get one doctor in there. It should give the Haris a bit more staying power, if one or both Govads go down, the Asawira is there to doctor them up again and with regeneration, has some chance of coming back from the unconscious as well. I’m a bit undecided about which profile on the Asawira doctor would be better in this link, though. I’m preferring the AP Rifle a bit more because it seems to fare better against high armor targets, but then again, the DA CC weapon seems to be more of use in CC in most of the games I’ve had so far. This being the more aggressive team also benefits from having two specialists, who can activate a console or something like that if the situation calls for it.

Now then, on to the Fiday. I simply love Fiday. If for nothing else, then for style, but I’ve found them mostly really useful, as well. Also, I’m sure this is common knowledge by now, they seem to really evoke (sometimes irrational) fears in their opponents, so the psychological factor should not be understated. An opponent who is bent on taking down to Fidays doesn’t have that many resources to spare to hunt down the rest of your army. Since I’ve built the list with Mindwipe in mind, I gave them DA CC-Weapons, so they can start near the enemy consoles and maybe, if I get lucky, take them down as early as the second round.

The Farzan in group 2 would be the first to try and hack the middle consoles, again, when playing Mindwipe, and give the Fidays the info on where to find the real console to destroy. But even outside mindwipe he seems quite versatile with his D-Charges, Flash Pulse and shock mines, he’s just really squishy, so maybe better used a bit more conservatively. I mostly start him prone close to an objective to grab it as soon as possible, if I can, which has worked out well so far.

Now the remotes are there more for supportive fire. With the Rafiq being a repeater and having the Barid shoot his pitcher to extend the hacking area, it’s nice to spotlight some enemies and attack them with guided missiles, though it’s definitely not something to be reliant on (I’ve had the Barid fail to spotlight a Vostok Sputnik four times in a row, so this tactic seems to me to be a bit… fickle. But really cool if you can pull it off, I think).

Lastly the Daylamis. They’ve been nothing but heroes in the games I’ve had so far (even going so far as killing Atalanta two (!) times in the reactive). Even with their slightly increased price, which is a bit sad but totally fair in my opinion, I can’t refrain from taking two of them in any list that I write. I’ve used them mostly on the reactive as roadblocks and annoyances so far and they’ve always brought back their points so far, so, yeah, still awesome profiles.

For the future, I really want to try out a linked Yara Haddad with Strategic Deployment in a Haris-Team, probably with Asawira Doc and HMG Govad or HRL or Spitfire Muyib. Not sure how much else of this list would need to change to pull it of and still be balanced, but on paper, that kind of Haris seems quite nice. Also, I do enjoy playing drop-troopers but I haven’t had the chance to try out the Ragiks that often yet, but planning on doing that more sooner than later.

I’ve also thought about playing a haris and a three man core team and move them both up the field, maybe one with Asawira, Yara and one of the TacAware Muyibs and the other being composed of more long-ranged weapons, like the Asawira Spitfire and Govad HMG. I’d definitely want to try out something like that in the future, maybe throw in a Lasiq sniper for overwatch-duty and a Farzan of any specialist-flavour.

One thing I’ve found that, compared with YJ and IA, I’m still struggling a bit too much with heavy armored and or mimetic models (such as the dreaded Vostok Sputnik), so maybe changing up the fireteams with more of our demolition experts (aka: Muyibs) would be a good idea or even trying to get them to work solo somehow or taking the hacking game a step up. I also really like the Shakush on paper, but I think I won’t be playing one until the model drops (so… next year maybe?). For similiar reasons, I haven’t played more than one Asawira, yet, but the idea of three or four of them in one list sounds… tempting.

So, that’s that for now, as I said, I’m not the most experienced player (or talented, for that matter) but so far, I’m really having fun playing Hassassins, they are a stylish and versatile faction, I love their fluff and I’m really happy to get back into them, as they are one of the main reason why I became interested in Infinity in the first place.

Sorry for this lengthy post, but I hope this sort of breakdown is interesting in some way and I’m always happy to get feedback.

 

Thanks for sharing.

The list you presented us and many others before yours, are perfects examples of "how in good shape" is hassasin right now. Yes, asawiras are amazing, fidays too, but you don't need then in order to have a good list funny to play and with serious chances to take the win.

"so the psychological factor should not be understated." This is the best about fiday ;)

About the "asawira doc" with DA or Shock CC Weapon, I choose always the "shock" unlees I need the Antimaterial rule for some reason in the mision. Yes, to kill something with DA will be probably quickier, but remember, asawira does critical hit on 14s, if you are using berserker then on 11s, with Damage 14+1 for Martial arts Level 2, probably you kill something with Armour 4 or less at first order with a little lucky, if not, in the second "punch".

"One thing I’ve found that, compared with YJ and IA, I’m still struggling a bit too much with heavy armored and or mimetic models (such as the dreaded Vostok Sputnik), so maybe changing up the fireteams with more of our demolition experts (aka: Muyibs) would be a good idea or even trying to get them to work solo somehow or taking the hacking game a step up. I also really like the Shakush on paper, but I think I won’t be playing one until the model drops (so… next year maybe?). For similiar reasons, I haven’t played more than one Asawira, yet, but the idea of three or four of them in one list sounds… tempting."

About this, you have some options with AP: asawiras, yara or Shakus, but if you don't be willingly to include then, don't forget you still have a lot of guys with shotguns, and templates ignores covert bonus, so it could not be the best solution, but you have a tool. And most of the times is enough, do one single wound to a heavy armoured guy isn't too hard with high burst, so, later, you can do the second with the "template". Here even the humble ghulam or daylami can do the job.

I didn't forget a match, not too long ago, Hassasin vrs Hassasin, where my rival spend a lot of orders with one camo (a daylami for sure) and he managed to place the little "bastard" right behind my core, in front of my two ghulams. I choose to dodge, he shoot the shotgun against one of my ghulans and with another order, he killed my Lt and do one wound to my asawira right behind.

Template with burst 2 are a good thing.

Best regards!

 

My thoughts exactly. Coming from Tohaa I'm extremely comfortable running multiple aggressive haris teams and I sincerely dislike to use the core options for any factions. With how incredibly potent and flexible the Asawira is in particular this playstyle would work really well for Hassassins. But really its the strong ARO game that Hassassins brings that enables this style - multiple Daylami, jammers, and a baby Noctifier without needing to resort to a core or even to flash pulse REMs.

Here's what I whipped up to bring ITT for critique as a general base list to tailor to missions.


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GROUP 1 10
GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
YARA HADDAD (Strategic Deployment) AP Marksman Rifle / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 28)

ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) Boarding Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
LASIQ (Forward Observer, X Visor) Viral Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)

GHULAM Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
GHULAM (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)

FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
FARZAN (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)

GROUP 2 1 4 2
DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
NADHIR (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, Flammenspeer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, Jammer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)

4 SWC | 301 Points

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Needs some work, being a point over for starters. I usually like the Farzan CoC but I feel that perhaps earlier posters re; the solid ARO game, plus a fake LT, could free the points up though in honesty its likely the first thing I'd take would be another Farzan since I can't afford a Fiday.

One Haris has smoke and Visor inbuilt, forward deployment and two solid pointmen. The other has a solid pointman though its redundant, a tough doctor (has been an all-star before) though not certain if shotgun is the right pick, and I'm experimenting with the Lasiq as a combat specialist that can bring situational firepower via mimetism and viral.

Wondering about the ARO aspect. Is this enough? Is it too much? Been a bit on and off with games so not certain what the 'meta' is. I do dislike the lack of even one reliable order for transfer into group one so maybe double Mutt is too much.

It's also lacking hacking, which is a known mental blindspot for me and my list design. How are people getting by relying on the Asawiras or Djabel to cut armor?

 

I appreciate the math, but since when we can link Barids?