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Getting savely into CC

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Kumatake81, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

    Nov 23, 2017
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    Dodge is a Short Skill/ARO
    While it has the movement trait, it is not a Short Movement Skill, which is why you can't Dodge+BS Attack
  2. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer

    Aug 22, 2019
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    You are right, that was a big misreading on my part. Apologies for leading everyone to look at the wrong rules.

    However, weirdly enough, I believe I'm still correct although through a different reasoning and rule.

    The point immediately below the one I pointed to, states that (…) if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO.. From this I infer that Movement Skills do not allow the enemy to react normally in ARO.

    As you correctly pointed out, Dodge falls under Short Skill + ARO categories, but it also has the Movement label, which, according to the label list, makes this a form of Movement.

    I know that being a form of Movement is (or should be) semantically different from being a Movement Skill, but in that case, what is a Movement Skill? Climb, Jump, Cautious Movement all have the Movement label, but are in the Entire Order category. It doesn't help that the word "Skill" is used, both in uppercase and lowercase, to define categories (Automatic, Deployment, Short, Short Movement, Entire Order, ARO) and as an identifier of the action.
    elTzimmy likes this.
  3. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2020
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    As confusing as it is; Dodge is not a Short Movement Skill. It is a Short Skill with the movement tag. This was clarified by IJW in the rules section.

    Short Movement Skills are denoted by a blue heading. Dodge does not have the blue heading, only the green/yellow for Short Skill/ARO. If dodge was a short movement skill, you would be able to declare Dodge + BS attack, but you can’t.

    EDIT: I got massively ninja’d lmao
  4. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2017
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    Attack them the same as you anyone else. With your first half of the order move into engaged under marker state then hit with a CC attack because they will only be a bbn le to declare dodge or CC themselves and almost always you'll murder your target even if they are a low level CC guy cause you're attacking from camo with surprise attack. Or, Dodge in, since you both roll your dodge rolls before you declare where you move, it doesnt matter if they move they're guy after you move yours because if they do succeed in their roll, just dont move your guy into LoF, i.e. stay hidden around the corner.

    You mean that the only ARO the team can declare is Dodge against a troop outside of LoF, sure, depending on how well that troop succeeds at Dodging...
  5. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2020
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    I'm still a little slow on this i guess. So just to be clear:
    I'm attacking a fireteam of 4+ members.
    I'm in marker state
    I'm in the fromt arc.

    First short skill is move into engaged.
    What are the possible enemy AROs?
    1) All team members can delay (because I'm a marker) and maybe shoot later
    2) All team members with LoF can shoot me (because marker is cancelled in S2S)
    3) The engaged trooper can CC/Dodge other skill allowed in engaged
    4) team members can dodge/reset
    5) don't know what else
  6. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2017
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    who else mis-read the thread title as "getting savagely into cc" ?
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Apr 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1) No, because of 2. Your Marker State was cancelled before they are declaring AROs.
    2) Yes.
    3) Yes, but shooting is likely to be a better option as that lets the rest of the Fireteam also declare BS Attack, without splitting the Fireteam.
    4) Yes, but as per 3 it's not a good option.
    Kumatake81 likes this.
  8. elTzimmy

    elTzimmy Active Member

    Oct 28, 2020
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    Ijw, if we've got you here, what's your take on Ashtaroth's suggestion of Stealth+Dodge?

    Also, I'd be curious to know what exactly is the definition of those groups that Skills get divided into. Those are… what exactly? Categories? Groups?
  9. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2020
    Likes Received:
    Note this ONLY works if you are behind them. As soon as you enter silhouette contact with them your marker state is cancelled, retroactively, for the entire order, so if they have LoF to any part of your movement they can shoot you.

    Sixth sense still wouldn’t let them shoot you if you are behind them though, because they aren’t responding to a BS attack from outside LoF.
    Willen and Kumatake81 like this.
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