This is true, ish. There are a couple of those units that are still first rate cc units, but the argument is moot when they are up against the Borac, the defacto subject of any discussion of full auto lv2(at least for now) since the Borac only has cc17 to defend itself, and no skills to increase it, even going as far down the cc viability list as a seraph or the locust will be enough...
Tbh this thread almost convinced me that FA2 is sorta fine. I mean, if we count MSV (something you must prepare in advance, before the match) as a counter to optical mods, and something as exotic as White Noise / Albedo as a counter to MSV, then sure dropping an AD/HD folks (and maybe something like bikes, depending on table) outside of Kriza's LoF counts as a counter too. I mean, sure, it works against anything related to shooting, but not against all defensive mods, strictly speaking. Fat2, on the other hand... Nah, not gonna derail this. BRB creating a dedicated topic to bitch and moan about Fat2.
It's a problem, but there are ways around it, and there are options for folk with no smoke that can survive the ARO with fairly decent reliability. It will cost a lot of orders compared to throwing chain rifle highlanders at it, but them's the breaks...
This^ So much this^^ This should probably be a separate thread as well because I don't think it's what the OPer had in mind. But frankly it's such a huge issue imo with Infinity anyone highlighting it needs to be backed up. I'm all for playing challenging games but there is a difference between challenging and needless memorization. Is memorizing dozens of rules that function nearly identical, like CC tables, a challenge? Yes. Are they necessary for a challenging game? No. In Infinity's current state my ultimate goal is to design a touchscreen tabletop that functions much like XCOM. I'll let a PC do the memorization and calculations for me until Infinity comes down to a more manageable level. No more debating the most common rules interactions please.
First of all, let's clear up the terms: Infinity's Suppressive state is today's military "Overwatch" order Infinity's FullAuto is something similar to a today's soldier performing "Suppression fire" or "neutralization" as the british like to call it. In fact the -3 on enemy FtF is because the enemy is worried from the volume of lead he is receiving, so it's not capable of effective targeting on the enemy. in real world (so, no wormhole technology, nor superhitech weapons) a soldier is usually considered "suppressed" when: -extremely precise shoot are being fired (for example, you're targeted by a sniper) -extremely high volume of lead is flying (for example when you're shoot at by HMG) -extremely high firepower is falling (for example, when you're under Artillery fire) the first 2 options are usually very specific, as you usually are able to suppress a single soldier or a squad. the artillery one, basically suppresses bigger areas. And while it's not totally safe to peak at the enemy when you're being suppressed, it's not a death sentence. so the behaviour of the soldier depends on Morale, training and importance of its role. basically, lesser trained/motivated soldiers are much more subject to "suppression" than highly trained/motivated soldiers. That's why i suggested that Courage (or maybe Veteran L1) could counter the FtF malus on Full Auto.
What about Religious? Although that way, with all those rules combined, you have like half of the Infinity ignoring the rule.
Or impetuous, i mean, people who are crazy enough to never take cover, should not even be fazed by the risk of taking a stray bullet.
I mean, it's those very people who jump from skyscrapers to whack the closest targer with their rifle's butt.
as i said, my "courage ignore FA" was only an hypotesys. one could easily say "let's create a very strong rule that's easily ignored by most troops". still, i'm not CB rule designer, they're the one that choose what rule to use and what should they do. I am only giving my 2 cents on "nested skills and not streamlined skills", which in part impact also current Full Auto, Fatality, and many other existing skills.
Also smoke counters Kriza, not in FtF but stops further shooting. There is also another possible meaning because Infinity exists in world of widely used cybernetics, exosuits and tough armor plates. You could be really courageous and don`t fear bullets flying near your head but your aim will suffer if at the same time these bullets bounce from your helmet optics and visors. Not direct harm but interference indeed.
Big guns in their face is another way of solving problems, and curiously those without smoke tend to be quite good at that.
all factions (vanillas) have some kind of smoke. That the troop it carries is cheap or useless, is a different question
I just think it's a better thematic fit for things that can do suppressive fire. We already have a keyword for weapons that indicates they are capable of maintaining a certain rate of fire, so this feels like a conceptual fit for me. The -3 to enemies also resembles the -3 penalty for suppression. The core of my argument is that I think it's a better thematic fit that way. Obviously the mechanics of it work just fine as written.
My point is that any troop can use suppression fire if they have a high burst weapon but that burst is limited, on the other side, full auto is only used on troops that have weapons modified for a higher burst so the enemy is forced to deffend against an unusual high burst One is an hability for any user with the correct weapon. The other needs specific equipment
When did PanO get smoke? Oh, yeah, Eclipse and Nimbus. Eclipse on the Guarda dAssalto and Nimbus on Father-Knight FOs. That's about as bad as Smoke in JSA.
