I think that some of the inspiration of the story may have come from there, too. The problem is that the Meiji Revolution then led into the horrors of the Imperial Japanese Army. And the Uprising fluff has independent Japan going back to the social caste system of the Edo period (complete with no mobility between castes) coupled with the worst excesses of the historical Kempeitai. Heck, I'm pretty sure that the US is the only time in history that a revolution has turned out better than what it was before...
Oh... humm... Not sure that's accurate Spoiler: Off topic Sweden. Norway. Twice*. Finland. Twice*. France. Most of Africa would probably agree that they are better off without France, Dutch, Germany, etc. Mexico. I admit I'm not good on South American history, but I'm sure they still celebrate freeing themselves from Spain/Portugal. Who else revolted successfully in history? Didn't Rome revolt against Greece? Worked out fairly well for Rome, I'd say. Egypt revolted against both Sumeria and Persia if I'm not mistaken, which in the end lead to them becoming a super-power by the time the Bible was written. Japan revolted against USA/England/France quasi-occupation, did they not? China revolted against the same, if I'm not mistaken. Indian revolution against UK wasn't all that bad, was it? Vietnam and Thailand didn't particularly enjoy the rather harsh treatment under France. * National pride mandates me to point out that only one of these nation's two revolutions actually improved things for Sweden
I see the main point here, but I don't think there are any completely good factions in infinity anyway. PanO are hypercorp dystopian. YuJing are ... the same as the JSA we're discussing. Ariadna are killing natives and taking their land, Haqqislam have bandits, child soldiers and an entire sectorial of assassins because they don't like the idea of due process. Nomads are constantly fighting/hacking/stealing from each other and everyone else. Aleph is a control freak willing to play the needs of the many card at any opportunity. CA is CA. Tohaa brainwash other species and their own people. I mean there are less bad factions, depending on your preference but you can find a reason to dislike most of them.
Well, no, no faction in the game is good. Just like no faction in the real world is good 100% of the time. The first problem is that the Uprising took a 'dark gray' faction and made them flat-out black, and the second problem that it's trying to paint a faction that should be just as dark gray as the first faction and paint them as heroes. I find both of those problems offensive. Point taken on some of those. Spoiler: Off topic I'm not sure Africa is a good example, since the difference would be multiple nations at constant war with each other instead of civil wars between different tribes.
Better isn't the same as good and a lot of People throughout history has preferred autonomy to irrigation, aqueducts, roads, security, and all the other things Yu Jing has done for them. Wooosh! Back on topic!
Real world politics and historical political discussion in a fictional universe that does not play with the same political rules is not going to evolve well. In general real world politics discussions does not evolve well.
Fair enough theres dark and darker but I don't think there's been much change. I'll admit I haven't read Uprising so this is based on the OPs post about the samurai and nobility. The pre-uprising JSA had a lot of unit descriptions referencing warrior culture and samurai roots but this was balanced by the fact that they never instituted any social policy based on this, I feel the JSA were always dark, they were just a dark underdog and now they've lost the sympathy points for being repressed.
I don't necessarily agree that the JSA are dark and terrible. Yes, the kempei are gross, which is why mine are going to be metsuke, instead. And to be honest, Japan got on reasonably well during the Edo period, so as long as we aren't going internment camp mode, (No reason to assume they are) JSA has every ability to advance over time and get better. It doesn't have to be all doom and gloom for JSA, and honestly, looking at many famous japanese figures, the samurai weren't all bad, plenty were good leaders who took care of their people. Like all factions, I bet it'll be a mixed bag.
Are we referring to the Edo period with the incredibly rigid and stratified social structure of which the lowest tier were referred to as, to translate directly, "non-human"? Dictatorships have the potential for good dictators but it still doesn't make them good. It doesn't have to be doom and gloom for the JSA but I don't think they're any lighter than normal YuJing. How light you feel that is in relation to the rest of the world is up to your personal ethics. On the table they're fine, apart from the Kempei (good conversion idea btw), but I think the overarching background fluff of who your forces work for is going to be fairly totalitarian unless you want to run them as renegades.
Yes and no, in those same time periods the middle class flourished and got so rich, thanks to the peace everyone enjoyed, that they had to ban fancy clothes because samurai felt bad that the 'half-humans' were richer and better dressed than they were, but you'll note it was a ban on fancy clothes, not the murder and theft of all the middle class money. Hence, it was a very stable and peaceful era, where there was economic mobility, even if not social mobility. Was it perfect, hardly, but in a future where the JSA stretches across several solar systems, they can't exert the same central control the old shogunate did, so I expect it to be totally reasonable for each japanese enclave to have it's own flavor and spin.
Actually, my gripe goes the other way: I bought the JSA as I thought they'd be these cool Japanese heroes... but it turns out they are just puppets indoctrinated into an ideology engineered by some selfish rich people...
Fair enough, my concerns were more to do with civil rights and the lower classes. By your metric Edo is acceptable and I take your point that there's room for progress.
Yours might be, mine are more like a clan from the sengoku era, but still in service to the emperor. So idea here is that they refuse to allow in the kempeitei and maintain some individual autonomy, and in turn they provide material supplies that the JSA manufacturing sector needs at cheaper prices than the competition. Build your own niche, don't let upset forumites tell you that there is literally only 1 way for your troops to be.
You forget the Dutch war of independence from Spain. Which led us to our golden age. You americans took our revolution as inspiration
Honestly? I do think that Japanese citizens of the newly independent Japan are politically naive, yes. Consider it like this; 1) Japanese citizens of Yu Jing are culturally repressed, as well as politically and legally repressed. Japanese culture and history has been marginalised, excluded, written out. So Japanese people in Yu Jing are poorly educated about their own cultural heritage and history. 2) A counter-authoritarian movement has begun, which is based around Japanese nationalism and independence. Part of this is reconnecting Japanese citizens of YJ with a version of their cultural heritage and history which is conducive towards their supporting of independence. This goes way back to WWII and beyond, the IJA committed no war crimes! That was Chinese and Korean propaganda designed to destroy Japanese national and ethnic pride! The Kempetei were heroic and justified! Post-war Japanese anti-militarism was imposed on them by an occupying nation! The Samurai were all noble and ferocious warriors without fear of death! Katanas can cut through steel plate! Etc etc etc. The Japanese citizen of YJ has been informed by a secret society, attempting to educate them, that Japan is a noble and glorious land inhabited by noble and glorious people, has never done any wrong, and is cruelly and wrongfully repressed. Anyone who says otherwise to any of this is just a propaganda tool of YJ! 3) Because your Japanese Citizen is actually repressed, thoroughly so, by the YJ authorities, they believe this. They take it all in. There's no counter-narrative and no sense of historical subtlety or complexity. Japanese citizens are not given the full picture of their heritage, they are given lies intended to destroy it, and lies intending to elevate it to superior to all, but the lies which elevate it also promise freedom, so they believe those ones. 4) Fuelled by a zealous belief in an ethno-nationalist ideal which only has vague roots in reality, independence is secured. The average Japanese citizen of Japan rejoices! Freedom at last! And hey, it's not like they've not thrown off the authority of a horribly repressive government. But of course, they are very naive. They see the world through the lens of the only system of education that they now trust; that of the Kuge's propaganda department. They have no true political education, so how can they be aware of the complexities of their own history, and see the lies being fed to them? If you want to play a truly heroic JSA character, you play one who has read some books, some real genuine history, on Nanking or whatever, and thought "wait a second, that's not what the state-approved history channel says happened at all..." Because the JSA is now an ethno-nationalist state, which suits the Kuge just fine, but the JSA are just being used by another hand that's all. And yeah it's probably better in Japan than it was before... or is it? Because I don't think that the Kempetei are any more pleasant than the ISS.
@Solar This is a perfect summary of what happened over the years to the Japanese people. I bet there are quite a few in the coming years that will see the system for what it is. Around the time when Uprising first was officially announced, I made a character who is a former Kemptetei who got blinded during the Uprising. Eventually in the coming months he sees & realizes that the Japanese people basically traded one regime for another and ends up being honorably discharged for his service. Later on the past sins he committed during his years as a Kempetei weigh heavy on his mind. So pulls some strings and calls in a few favors then leaves the newly formed nation to rectify the people he has hurt. Basically he is based off of an idea of mine, "what if Zatoichi was in the infinity universe"? I mean we have Yojimbo in the world of infinity so why not one of the most iconic characters in Japanese films.
@Solar excellent summary! (sadly, it's not too far from the truth in current Japan...) Hell yeah, I dig it!
Historical revisionism and propaganda plus a genuine or perceived state of oppression (cultural, political, economic etc) plus lack of political awareness = becoming very susceptible to extremist politics. Happens over and over again in history. There are exceptions, I've always been beyond amazed that when the Tutsi RPF kicked the shit of of the Hutu government military in an unbelievably impressive series of battles, they didn't then do Rwandan Genocide II: This Time It's The Other Way Around and instead kicked all the Hutu out, but there aren't that many exceptions.
I don't quite understand the "naive" factor here...how is this any different from any other nation out there really? Every nation uses it's own forms of "brainwashing" which strengthens certain points of their agenda. If you are a capitalist consumer nation, you feed your people with the urge to consume nonstop and defend democraty/free market......if you are a totalitarian regime you feed them with ideas of unity, strong leadership, and if possible give them some common enemies.... If you plan to become independent or want a close bond to your leadership, instilling within your population a strong sense of "honour" and "duty" will help your agenda along greatly....and in case of the Japanese, this is rooted deeply in their history and traditions which makes it even easier for them. I mean heck, I don't think they had to do much real "brainwashing" there anyways...just a good old wave of "Remember the good old times" propaganda like it is present in so many countries nowadays... Honestly I think the Japanese were already "brainwashed" in that way all throughout their history (even nowadays..)....and they really had no big reason NOT to follow the Kuge in their Uprising, especially since the Kuge actually did an EXTREMELY competent job in pulling it off I feel. They outplayed their oppressors almost completely, and managed to succeed, and the future of Japan will be a better one as long as Yu Jing doesn't simply crush them, which as mentioned in the fluff, would be quite demanding in manpower as every Japanese will fight to their last breath (just like they would have all throughout most of their history..) Sure the cast system is quite trash from our standpoint, but at least in this Japan, you can rank up if you join the military, unlike some other cast systems throughout history, and if all of the population actually WANTS the cast system (which seems to be the case)...there's not much problem at least in the beginning, until the next generation gets born and gets pissed why they can't be artists or whatnot :-P They are about as "naive" as any other nation's population out their that actually follows their leaders I'd say....and their "brainwashed" state actually is their strength in this point of time...
