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Draal Saboteurs

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Cothel, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    Derp yes it was the sniper. Scratch that then.

    Having had a play with the numbers of a Marksman Draal vs a Sukeul Hmg against more usual targets I'm pleasantly surprised. The Draal is about 1% worse for killing power against b2 targets but around %5 less likely to take a wound from them.
    None of this is catering for mates either, where the Draal survivability presumably goes up due to the reduced crit chance.
     
    #81 spears, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
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  2. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Played the draal in one game so far, he feels great. I had him with dazer and submachine gun with a gao rael and a makaul in a triad. Had first turn started with active stratuscloud it was kind of unnecessary and hurt me more than my opponent, he didn't have any good aro pieces.
    The problem I see is the draal competes with the sukeul, the k1 is simply better than the submachine gun and also better than the ap marksman rifle. and with ap marksman he is a bit more expensive than the sukeul and it feels kind of hard to justify the price difference. The Sukeul HMG which has a 5 burst 15 damage in a triad is cheaper. What are your thoughts? In what situation is the draal a better choice than the sukeul?
     
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  3. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    Like yourself I've only got one game in so far with one but anecdotally it single handily kept me in the game and managed to leverage almost all of its skills without too much effort.
    6-2 is no joke, especially with mines. There were a few moves where the 6 meant I could have moved to a corner and just dropped a mine rather than waste the second half of the order.
    The cloud is pretty fun and has a lot of niche power that brings something unique to the table, Imo its one of the best (not most powerful) new rules to be introduced.
    Forward deployment L2 is pretty nice with Triad but I expect it will be used to dump the mine further forwards rather than stick the Draal out that far.
    I'm not sure the Smg one is worth the points, its a shame the Dazer version doesnt get minelayer.
    Dodging on 12/15s is high enough that I would risk getting one through a minefield without clearing it with something more expendable first.

    The Ap Marksman sits somewhere between the non specialist Hmg sukeul and the lt version, which is of note if you want to run a non specialist schemer or Krigel, something about its price seems slightly off but In part I think that's because Mimetism is several points too cheap. So whilst the Draal might live in the shadow of the Sukeul Its good enough that I'm planning to run one without feeling i'm gimping my list.
     
  4. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Thank you spears, yeah I didn't consider the mines at all, that is a huge bonus combined with his 6/2 movement. And yeah Mimetism is probably simply to cheap it feels kind of weird to pay more for an ap marksman when an hmg or missile launcher. But he is a specialist even with ap marksman so thats in his favour. I will use him for sure in some more games and the only thing I think is weird that you can use the stratuscloud only once it would be way more intresting if you could actually refill it with a baggage, I don't really think that would be broken
     
  5. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I'm speaking as an opponent of Tohaa player not as a tohaa player myself but the AP marksman draal seems quite interesting:
    - Draal brings AP, even with lower B and Damages, it will be more efficient to hunt super-heavy opponent (strong HI, TAG)
    - range is key in infinity. To me, the marksman rifle draal is an ARO piece hunter. The 20-40 range is the best place to be to hunt most ARO piece (TR drone, sniper, ML) : they have 0 bonus, longer shot they get their bonus, shorter they will switch to pistol.
    For example (with everyone in cover) :
    Supposing 60-80 distance : Sukeul HMG vs Fusilier ML (in 5 men FT) : 5 dice on 13's vs 2 dice on 12's
    Supposing 20-40 distance : draal marksman rifle vs fusilier ML (in 5 men FT) : 4 dice on 13's vs 1 dice on 9

    This being said, I don't see a lot of advantage to the SMG draal vs FO sukeul : he get less potential for classified and lttle worse firepower but gain dazer and direct template weapon. It's interesting but not really gamechanging
     
  6. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Still the K1 is a stronger weapon than the AP Marksman for damage reason, the range of the ap makes it intresting but thats a 9 point point increase for better range but worse damage. But yeah the draal opens a bunch of new options and is more of a toolbox.
     
  7. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I don't love the draal as a link member, he does bring some nice gear but Mimetism is just too damn strong. The gear also synergises better in a skirmisher role - the dazer will slow your own troops, and a mine near your DZ is less useful than a mine that can be placed further up the table if needed. I'm way more excited to use it as a skirmisher that has the potential to jump into a broken Triad and get a power up. A Draal with a symbiobomb is bringing an absurd number of tactical options to the table.

    The really interesting profile is the AP Marksman. After playing a succession of games against TAGs with my usual lists, I really feel like AP is a bit of a gap in the Tohaa arsenal, and while you can beat the TAGs in close combat that can be a risky proposition. I like the idea of having that AP Rifle up the table, but really feels like 40 points is just so much to be paying compared to the discounted SMG options
     
  8. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    Oh Draal, where have you been hiding all this time?
     
  9. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I'm not quite following this comment. What stops a Draal from deploying mines effectively if they're linked?
     
  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I think he's getting at the fact that deploying your Draal in a link usually means not taking full advantage of FD2, which means decreasing the effective locations you can deploy a mine to.
     
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  11. Scactha

    Scactha Member

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    Rules query on the Stratuscloud: does it work through walls? I.e. could s/he deploy upfield inside a building and project the cloud on the otherside of the wall?
     
  12. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Probably, yes (dazers do). But it'd be a good question to ask in the rules forum.
     
  13. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    RAW says yes.
    RAI is unknown.
    Common sense says no.
    But if you look at some rules like Especulative Fire, for simplicity sake and for better gameplay experience Common Sense is sometimes ignored.

    So... decide it beforehand with your oponent. If no consensus, a dice roll might help.
     
  14. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Don't think so, it is a template centered on the draal so it should follow basic template placement which needs to confine to terrain and is infinite hight in open
     
  15. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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  16. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    I stand corrected nice
     
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  17. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    One little detail: IJW's post says "As written".
    We still don't know the intention behind the Startoclud rule, so maybe it'll change in the future.

    At least, looks like we don't need to ask our oponents beforehand.
     
  18. Scactha

    Scactha Member

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    Agree, I garnered as much as IJW says too, but it still feels slightly iffy. I guess the mite sized nanobots squeezes through an unnoticed air vent and spreads out from there.
     
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  19. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Tried the Draal a few times with bombs today. Once he just got alpha striked by their reserve piece. But the other time he shut down a large area of the board which something important wanted to cross. Bombs, combined with his mines and pulzar make him a one man castle in the midfield. Really interesting unit right there
     
  20. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    So got to play the draal a few times.
    A few thoughts of mine are:
    1. Nikoul becomes a cool aro piece combined with his stratocloud, even active turn the nikoul has a good chance of taking on trs through it because of all the modifiers and viral
    2. Because fd lvl2 i would take the draal mostly solo as submachine minelayer. Can take objective similiar to clipsos, lay mines and then supp fire to control mid field.
    3. Or take him with ap marksman to use as a hunter
    4. Only triad i can see him in is with a gao rael and a third unit with gao as link leader
    5. Otherwise he can be used to reform triads in midfield if a triad looses a member

    I quite like the draal and look forward to playing him a lot more pretty much my favourite of the new units so far
     
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