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Domaru in N4

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Fed4ykin, Sep 18, 2020.

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  1. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear. That is a bit of an issue that the quick start rules on page 14 are so very different from the main Dodge rule on page 64.
     
  3. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Well crap. Now I'm back to every "genius" rolling dice all the time.
     
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  4. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    All the time haha
     
  5. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    With everything getting very competent in CC (Combined >20 +3/-3 is very common now), Domaru almost all gaining E/M CCWs and keeping Berserk is sort of interesting.
    Salt pillar it up, doesn't matter if it's good at CC, Domaru are cheap so losing one isn't too bad.
    And then follow up with Neko, Daiyokai or a Tanko Mono CCW from the same Link.
    Neko appears to have lost his AP+EXP and is only AP+DA now, but got a bit cheaper and has Tactical Awareness.
    Tanko look ridiculously cheap now and improved a lot with new MA2.
    Daiyokai is still not great, but at least a bit cheaper. Him with Neko and a FO Domaru is 5 Orders in between NCO and TA.

    New and improved Shikami look like real winners
    6-2, Forward Deployment 4", and a bit cheaper. Nimbus seems to have poofed out of existence. Kinematika 2 means they can move 6+ (70% Dodge 4"). Should be a lot more efficient to use one.

    Shinobu gained C+ and got cheaper.
    Honestly why would I ever not want to invest in Shinobu's kit now? Smoke, C+, Combi (pretty good vs DTWs), MA5, +1CC, +1PH
    Oni looks pretty dead to me aside from getting cheaper. Stuck at MA4(B1) and all he has to show for it is a E/M CCW on top of his Mono.
    With MA4 EXP CCWs are a pretty linear improvement over Mono CCWs against all but the heaviest targets - against which Shinobu is more than twice as deadly. If Saito is largely unchanged I can't see the Oni getting much table time.
    Damn shame, I loved the BSG Oni.
     
    #65 Teslarod, Sep 22, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  6. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Is this still an extrapolation of the leak or do we have solid data by now?
     
  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Domaru is solid data as of last Friday, rest is data from the leak (which contains the identical Domaru).
     
    #67 Teslarod, Sep 22, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  8. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Shikami looks great. Until you notice it has lost Stealth.
    It'll need to avoid hackers like the plague.

    Anyway, as others have said there are several mistakes and weird things in those profiles, so we'll have to wait for the official release.
     
  9. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Stealth seems to be going on and off profiles as they work on it. I'm sure they will have it in the end.
     
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  10. Ecthelion

    Ecthelion Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the leaks are still up in the air. They seem legit, but rumor has it that they're from a very old beta version of Army 7 and has stuff missing, alongside blatant errors. I expect a lot of them to be cleaned up and different once the official one is released this weekend. That said, they seem to at the very least give an indication of where JSA is headed:
    • Kuroshi Rider is 4 pts cheaper, +1 CC, Martial Arts 1, and gets smoke launcher and d-charges. Light flamethrower changed to light shotgun, Specialist changed to Forward Observer. This should be huge for people that like her; Yojimbo won't have to solo the frontline smoke thrower role now. Makes her a fast, dogged specialist/suicide lieutenant with smokes and anti-material, all the while being cheaper than before. Shotgun should make her even safer in close quarters shooting with that +6, and provide that template option if feeling suicidal. MA1 is less exciting than it may have been in N3 since it was un-nested and she didn't get Stealth, but it's still nice. The biggest thing is getting smokes; makes me wonder/hope if Aragoto will get them as well.
    • Ryuken-9 got a specialist profile; basically a slightly more expensive version of the SMG ODD profile that's a Killer Hacker. Very, very happy with this, looks like we might be getting a 2nd option for a midfield specialist.
    • Yuriko got mimetism and a Forward Deployment 2 profile. Really nice, and I hope/expect her to get some more flexible link team options as well (wildcard, please).
    • Ninjas basically lost all their longer range guns and only have SMGs and tac-bow options. In return they got generally cheaper, and have in-built Shock CC attack while getting to choose between AP or DA. So, AP/Shock or DA/Shock. Makes them even more lethal in CC now, guess they're really embracing the assassin thing. One interesting thing is that I only saw Hacker and Killer Hacker, no FO. Probably not a huge deal since we took the tac bow KHD most often anyway, and they of course have token state.
    • Musashi got Shock immunity and a bit cheaper. Given how Tanko base profile are only 18 pts ish now, it'll make the Musashi haris slightly more affordable, and just as killy as before; besides, Musashi will no longer be deleted by SMGs and Shock Mines. Wondering if Yojimbo might get the same nod and get shock immunity, though to be honest he's plenty strong enough already.
    I'm most excited for Kuroshi getting smokes, Shinobu getting Climbing+, Ryuken getting specialist, and the new Domaru and all its glory. Again, I expect many of these profiles to be different in proper Army 7, but I couldn't resist getting more than a little excited for these leaks. Super curious about Aragoto and O-Yoroi, too; Friday can't come soon enough, that's when a lot more will become clear, including our link options.
     
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  11. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Bostria pretty much said this was going to happen during the Kaldstrøm release, I'd be highly surprised if we don't see Kunai ninjas added to fill the niche.
     
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  12. Ecthelion

    Ecthelion Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if we'll get Kunai, since I think in the fluff they're supposed to be YJ loyalists/sellswords - so basically completely opposed to the JSA rebels, and probably consider each other to be traitors. It's possible, though.
     
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  13. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty anxious about it all as well. I'm actually suspecting Domaru get Wild Card as well. Given how good they got, I feel like CB want them to be the flagship JSA unit that finds it's way into every list and they'll drop a double model box of the 5th Domaru and Oyama. I'm hoping Oyama and the remaining named characters' final profiles all bring the heat in their changes like their lady friends.

    I agree. JSA players would be uproarious
     
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  14. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    What's so great about him? Except being rly expensive combi rifle and hackable?
    It's not like you don't have other cheaper specialist that are already starting in the mid of the board or even farther, are also deadly in cc, have better weapon than combi/contender, also have -6 to hit, are not hackable etc. Still don't see why I would actually wanna use one compared to other options?
     
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  15. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on all point mentioned and probably all points unmentioned. I'm hoping Shikami are grossly incorrect cause otherwise they will not get fielded.
     
  16. Fed4ykin

    Fed4ykin Well-Known Member

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    For the sake of paying with these beautiful miniatures?
    I definitely wish to play with the shikami. But almost never have the points for them if I am not making sacrifices elsewhere.
    One day I will try a shikami duo for sure.
     
  17. Ecthelion

    Ecthelion Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Shikami are a powerhouse profile, but they're far from useless. Lots of players tend to overemphasize super lean, optimized units and call everything else points bloat - but things rarely go down ideally in every game, and being immune to shock alone is pretty compelling. A single mine covering a button (even if it isn't shock) is a huge threat for a lone ninja. And now Shikami are way more mobile than ninja with superjump & climbing+ combined with 6-2 mov, and Forward Deployment will help them get to the midfield where they're best leveraged against other solos and specialists. I find a lot of players don't like the Shikami because it's not an optimized rambo; but that's like complaining that a spoon isn't a fork.

    If you want a hidden specialist to move and press a button in later turns, a ninja might be cheaper and more efficient - though you'd better hope your opponent doesn't use sensors and mines. If you want a mobile midfield combatant that can take a hit while pressing buttons and bullying weaker midfielders, Shikami are far better suited.

    Also, Shikami are much more threatening against multi-wound and high-armored opponents. DAM 16 AP+DA has a pretty good chance of hurting almost anything, while HI/TAGs will more comfortably shrug off or eat a DAM 14 AP+Shock or DA+Shock hit. And while having token state is pretty damn useful for getting into CC, superjump & climbing+ is no slouch for navigating battlefields and finding CQC paths either.

    Finally, as Fed4akin said, the miniatures are gorgeous. Unless a profile is straight up garbage (which very few Infinity profiles are), I'll always try and find a way to make good looking models work.
     
  18. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Come at me bro lol
     
  19. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Shikami combine additional durability with the ability to traverse verticality. They also bring a better CC package, with PH 14 and AP becoming more relevant in N4. They also dodge more reliably, which is a big thing in N4, especially for CC focused units.

    The main issue holding them back in N3 was their high cost and lack of FD, both of which will likely get fixed in N4. If Nimbus Ammo is indeed going away, we might also see a rework of the Contender loadout.

    Shikami play much more like I'd imagine a Ninja should play: Fast, agile, parkouring over obstacles and striking from unexpected angles.

    Ninjas can be placed in HD and wait for the right moment, but that's hardly engaging gameplay. I want that gorgeous miniature to be on the table doing cool stuff, not be relegated to a last-minute win condition.
     
    #79 Knauf, Sep 23, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  20. Ecthelion

    Ecthelion Well-Known Member

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    JSA really don't have that many midfield options. We get Ninja, Oniwaban, and Ryuken-9.

    Ninjas used to get combis and MSR, but only seem to get SMGs and tac bows in N4. That's on top of their abysmal BS 11. Now that they're restricted to SMGs, their effective range is shorter even than a Shikami's. They're good, but terrified of sensors and mines.

    Oniwaban get BSG and SMG options. They're absolute glass cannons; they're just as fragile as Ninjas, and usually die the turn after they reveal since they're so lethal. Given their cost, they basically need to kill something really important to make up their points. Also, they can't be specialists. I'm really hoping that mono gets anti-material in N4 so they can at least cut up boxes.

    Ryuken couldn't be specialists until the N4 leaks, but I'm excited that they might now be able to. They get SMGs, whose range is improved by their x-visors, especially in suppressive. But they only have 1W, aren't good at close combat, and don't have good mobility. They're minelayers and suppressive fire platforms that can lock down small areas and be annoying to remove.

    In terms of tough specialists, the only other option is really the Karakuri, which are pretty obnoxious since the changes to total immunity. However, they start in your DZ, don't have much mobility, and running a haris of these is a huge investment, though they usually make up for it by being so damn order-intensive to remove. Their models are also crazy old.

    Fingers crossed for Yuriko getting wildcard - then she'll be able to double duty in a Karakuri haris as both cheap filler and mobile engineer. Yuriko - Domaru - Karakuri would be pretty damn nice as a midfield objective-grabbing haris.
     
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