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Daiyokai

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Mahtamori, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Daiyokai now has NCO.

    Discuss.
     
  2. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Surprise update.
    It's very usefull, specially since that skill allows us to expend Lt. Orders that would otherwise go to waste (for example, a linked Domaru or Keisotsu Lt.).

    The only problem is that the price of the Daiyokai went up, and some lists may not work now. Other than that, I like this update a lot.


    But I'm still sad because the Shikami was left untouched.
     
  3. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    Still bad no weapon above 24 inches it is like Tooha Kieel san , is this an aro pice ? - no wrong range bands , is this an assault unit - no To slow lack forvard deployment or better movment
    Gama got HMG - this works
    Swis guard - HMG and ML - ye this works and To ...
    Yan Huo - all sorts of weapons
    Ariadna got acceptable ones but no one use them as Ariadna got so mutch op stuff that they do not need thous
    Al Fasis / Azrail - both got HMG profile or HRL (this one is actualy good ) (azrail is badddd but only 39p or 41 for HMG so not so bad if you have an SWC to spend and Dislike Jannisaries for some reason )
    Nomad ones got HMG profiles they are playable
    All CA super Heavy HI - playable due to weapons or special skills (sepsitor or Liutenent or other )
    Aleph ones - they are all good TY to skills or ODD and mobility or like Ajax is just 39p

    Daiyoka and Kieel san - they have no idea what they are - usable on Bording actions where los is like ca 16 inch corridor

    Shikami is missing Forvard deploy or other weapon lodout maybe like Smoke granade one ??
     
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Show of Force allows the 3 pts for TAGs and troops with HEAVY WEIGHT to score, so the S5 "miniTAGs" can score now ;)

    "
    As stated in the Main Objectives, if the trooper that Controls the Antenna
    is a TAG (or a trooper possessing the Pilot, Remote Pilot, Operator,
    Heavyweight Special Skill), the player gains 3 additional Objective Points"
     
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The biggest benefit I see is when the signature suicide LT like Kuroshi Rider does her thing, this stops the CoC Kempetei from being a useless bum of an LT at the back of the table. Now the Daiyokai can use his order on turn 2 and 3.
     
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  6. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Kiel-Kun is already fast, and may get good movement skills thanks to Metachemistry. Also, Tohaa has cheap access to smoke.
     
  7. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    a yes 6-2 is good for cautious movment and on roll of 7 to 8 can became 8-4 (way more sexy )
    but in terms of smoke your data is outdated - all left are Kriigel 27p and 0.5 SWC and Kerail for 20 p
    and Voodo tech in form of Moirrorball and Nimbus
    but amount of smoke for JSA sucks even more
     
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    N4 needs to make HMGs burst 3, give Spitfire-like weapons a chance to shine.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Uh... wut?
     
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Edit: Have posted more in the N4 thread, probably best not to go any further off-topic
     
  11. Goonhammer

    Goonhammer Active Member

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    The points increase hurts a bit, but I love the addition of NCO. I know I'm in the minority, but I adore the Daiyokai. Taking one in a Domaru haris makes for a brutally aggressive attack piece. And I know, I know, he doesn't have any vis mods, and he's on a big-ish base, but armor 5, BS 13, and as near as makes no difference three wounds means he can tank a hit or two while moving into the good range of what is effectively a burst 5 shock spitfire, and being able to use the lieutenant order to give him a bit more go-juice to get where he needs to go is just icing on the cake, especially since I usually run 10 order lists.
     
  12. hortanium

    hortanium Major Thomas Williams, USAriadna Marine Corps

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    Honestly, NCO for 2pts seems like a pretty cheap improvement. Having been on the receiving end of it's wrath, I've found it to be pretty decent.
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, NCO (meaning it can spend that Keisotsu's LT order) is a good improvement for the Daiyokai. It really needed something to make it more desirable to take, and NCO has long been on that list of good ideas.
     
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  14. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    The twisted, completely ill-fitting piece of crap that came in my JSA box meant to become a Daiyokai never ended up fitting together properly, and as such, has never seen construction, let alone use. Initially, I had not missed it in the slightest. But this small change might be enough to push me to finally whip out some greenstuff and convert and resculpt my Daiyokai pieces into something usable.

    While I still doubt it will end up being a top dog of the faction, as the update to Total Immunity has the Karakuri in an unreasonably good position compared to the rest of the HI in JSA (and that the update to TI was a terrible one in general), this is definitely a good move.
     
    #14 Weathercock, Sep 4, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  15. clever handle

    clever handle Well-Known Member

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    So show of force: daiyokai domaru haris or stick with the O'yoroi? I'm tempted by the former
     
  16. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Depends on your terrain tbh, both have their merits, you could forseeably get both in the list too

    Japanese Secessionist Army──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]10
    O-YOROI Lieutenant AP HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas / EXP CCW. (3 | 86) [​IMG] O-YOROI PILOT Contender / Pistol, CCW. ()
    DOMARU (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
    DOMARU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    DAIYŌKAI MULTI Marksman Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 54)
    KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEMPEI (Multispectral Visor L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (0 | 22)
    KEISOTSU Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 14)
    TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    Depending where you wanted the Lt order you've got options, just chucked this together quickly
     
    #16 csjarrat, Sep 4, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  17. Goonhammer

    Goonhammer Active Member

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    Daiyokai haris is more maneuverable with their smaller bases, provides three orders instead of one (or two, if the O-Yoroi is your Lt), plus can make use of the lieutenant order, will take more wounds before being completely removed from the table, can make more effective use of limited cover, will mess anything up in close combat faster and harder than the O-Yoroi will, and throws E/M grenades with physique 14. While I agree with @csjarrat that the choice is somewhat terrain dependent, I would personally go with the daiyokai haris, like, 94% of the time, unless you know the table is going to have some TAG hiding buildings, or other terrain that would extend the life expectancy of the O-Yoroi, or you're just feeling saucy and want to run an awesome TAG with exploding robot buddies that day.

    And, of course, there is always the option of "...why not both?"
     
  18. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Good points, but the O-Yoroi now brings an extra order for itself with Tactical Awareness, so that gap closes a little. The extra range and speed on the O-Yoroi can't be ignored either.
     
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  19. Goonhammer

    Goonhammer Active Member

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    That's fair, I had forgotten about Tactical Awareness order. I would still personally lean towards the haris, as the NCO using the lieutenant order doesn't reveal the lieutenant, and while the extra two inches of movement that the O-Yoroi has is very nice, I would think its utility is somewhat dependent on the terrain setup giving the TAG good cover to move at speed through. You're absolutely right about the extra eight inches of HMG range definitely being points in the O-Yoroi's favor, but the Daiyokai's red fury is going to be clocking in at damage 14, burst 5, shock, BS 13, which isn't nothing, it just means that the haris needs to played more aggressively to close that range gap quickly, which is kind of the point.

    Actually, now that I think about it, as loathe as I am to say it (because it's a TAG with martial arts!), the O-Yoroi is probably far, far better defensively. Use that extra movement to run it up to the corner of a building in the midfield big enough to give it cover, drop it into suppression, and you've got an Armor 10 wall, spewing APHMG death at BS 14, imposing -6 to hit before range mods on anybody trying to dislodge it, and that's pretty damn gross.

    Again, just my opinion, and, if I'm honest, I love the O-Yoroi damn near as much as I do the Daiyokai. I guess the cop-out answer is to play games with both, figure out which one works best for your playstyle and puts a big dumb grin on your face, because every meta is different, and every table is different, and we could mathfinity all day and many other things that have been said, time and again, whenever somebody asks "Is unit A or unit B better?"

    And also, there is always the option of taking both. I've done it, and it's bananas, and fun as hell, even when they both get blown up.
     
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  20. TeamMaxx

    TeamMaxx Member

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    Working off the concept why not take both. It's less orders but I'd still like to take the mini tag fem-bot that is the Karakuri.

    Japanese Secessionist Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]8
    O-YOROI Lieutenant AP HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas / EXP CCW. (3 | 86)
    [​IMG] O-YOROI PILOT Contender / Pistol, CCW. ()
    DAIYŌKAI Red Fury, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 51)
    DOMARU (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
    DOMARU Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
    KARAKURI Mk12, Chain Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 43)
    TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Oh wait, not legal since no hacker...or does the Engineer work for this?