1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

[Creative] New Hacking Programs.

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Ogid, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    745
    EDIT: Check the version 1.0 bellow.
    EDIT: Check the version 2.0 here
    : https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/creative-new-hacking-programs.34086/page-2#post-268748
    EDIT: Check the version 3.0 here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/creative-new-hacking-programs.34086/page-2#post-269378


    New programs Version 3.0:

    As always thanks for the feedback to everyone <3. I’ve been tweaking this a bit more:

    Changes of this version:

    New labels, states and order types added to clean up the format.

    The 2 new order types are created to aid hacking heavy lists (and are more relevant the more HDs, HIs and REMs you include). The most offensive of these orders (Cyber orders) behave like irregular orders, so they have low synergy with links. I was trying to avoid creating orders outside the order count phase but at the end I had to give that up to avoid the weird 3 turn programs.

    The 2 new states are there for supportware management. Buffer Loaded is placed at the same time that any supportware as a “placeholder” to remember that model had already used a supportware this turn (this is only relevant if the player is planning to use Cyber orders, otherwise this state can be ignored). Overloaded is used to mark troopers that cannot be affected by supportware that turn. Both effects end at the end of the turn.

    The new labels help to clarify the new mechanic and interactions: Surveillance represent a supportware that require high unkeep by the hacker (he is monitoring the surroundings or balancing potent drugs being injected in the trooper); those programs are usually a bit more potent but expose the hacker (force its activation, making him vulnerable to AROs), cannot benefice from Booster and prevent the hacker to be in a coordinated order with that model or in a Link (surveillance activation would kick him out of the link). Priority is used in programs whose effect cannot be stopped (for fluff or potential rules interactions), a trooper cannot be the target of 2 Priority programs. Linger is used for programs that represent powerful drugs being injected in the trooper, some effects would persist even if the supportware ends before the end of the turn.


    Changes in the programs:

    New GADGET-DEF “Martial Chip”. The role is both defense/offense in close combat, useful to the average HI but useless for CC specialists.

    Hot link reworked, is still quite complicated but it would add some interesting offensive/defensive tradeoffs.

    Remote assistance now only works with states and it’s an entire order skill to make it less efficient. Enlighten is more versatile now, being able to help also specialists in hacking area. Trauma Override has been reworded into Dodged as you guys seems to like it more than NWI. Only 1 order related program left Precise Data (renamed Power Up), this one have high synergy with having extra HDs in the list and is now a Gadget-1 program.

    Enhanced Sensors now have surveillance, Red Line have traded Climbing Plus for Multiterrain. New program “Stimulants” that grants extra mobility and CC damage in exange for cover mods. Spotter reworked to avoid making the HIs better in his optimal rangebands, surveillance added.

    New "drug related" effect added with Trauma Override, Stimulants and the label Linger.

    Booster mechanic changed, now have limited number of supportware activations per turn and the double target is only limited to HIs (the double supportware for REMs could be too much). Minor changes to Virtual Machine.

    I kind of like this new version, it may enable multi hacker lists, empower solo or duos (which could give a reason to use them instead of the Haris/Cores), give some niche to the hacker even when not pitted versus good matches; and also some potential too powerful programs had been eliminated. This is just theorycrafting, it’s not tested; so I’m sure it’s not 100% balanced, but I’d love something like this in the game.

    Note: As always feel free to give your feedback, but I’m going to have less time from now on; I’ll try to answer but I won’t be as active as before.

    Disclaimer: I know this is too much. I’m just having fun with the mechanics of Infinity.

    In general I think most of these could be added to the game, but realistically if I’d have to choose 6 to introduce they would be: Martial Chip, Private Commlink, Remote assistance, Red Line, Wired Reflexes and Booster.

    Ranges:
    • "Hacking area" means the program needs the target in Hacking area to be a legal target; but once it’s activated, program's range cover the entire table unless otherwise stated (like Private Commlink).
    • “Table” means “this program's range covers the entire game table.”

    New labels:
    • Priority Program’s target cannot choose to not benefice from the program in one order. A model cannot be the target of a Priority program if he already is benefiting from a supportware with this label (for example, an HI with Trauma Override in the same army where a EVO hacker is using Reboot cannot choose to apply the later when using Reset after being attacked by a Comms attack and cannot be the target of Hot Link)
    • Optional: Program’s target may choose to not benefice from the program in one order.
    • Surveillance: If this supportware is used during an order: In the active turn, the Hacker (who is maintaining the supportware) activates and performs an “Iddle” (unless otherwise stated in the program). In the reactive turn, the Hacker cannot ARO. This supportware cannot target the same Hacker.
    • Linger: The effects of this supportware continues until it ends even if the hacker stop maintaining. A hacker not maintaining a Linger supportware with Surveillance doesn’t activate in Surveillance.

    New states:
    Buffer Loaded:
    Activation: Troopers that are affected by any Supportware that specifically targets them get this state
    Effect: Indicate this trooper has been affected by a supportware this turn.
    Cancelation: Buffer Loaded state is automatically cancelled at the end of the turn.

    Overloaded:
    Activation: Troopers with a supportware active enters in this state when some conditions are met (depends on the program)
    Effects: Trooper cannot benefice from any other supportware (even those with the Priority or Obligatory labels). The trooper can still be the target of supportware programs, but he cannot benefice from any of its effects.
    Cancelation: Overloaded state is automatically cancelled at the end of the turn.


    New orders:
    Cyber order:
    • These are generated by the program GADGET-1 Precise Data. Each player can only generate them once per turn.
    • When Cyber orders are generated, they are placed on the table. Cyber orders doesn’t belong to any combat group.
    • Rules wise, A Cyber order behave exactly like an Irregular order with the following exceptions:
      • A Cyber order cannot be converted in a regular order using Command Tokens.
      • A Cyber order can only be used to activate hackable HI or Rems without the Buffer Loaded or Overloaded state.
      • The trooper activated by the Cyber order gains the Overloaded state.

    Support order:
    • These are generated by the GADGET-EVO program Booster. Each player can only generate them once per turn.
    • When Support orders are generated, they are placed on the table. Support orders doesn’t belong to any combat group.
    • Rules wise, a Support order behave exactly like a Regular order with the following exceptions:
      • It doesn’t belong to any combat group and may activate models of any combat group.
      • A Support order can only be used to activate a Hacker.
      • The only skills that Support orders allow to declare are: Any Hacking program without the Attack or Comms Attack labels, Idle, Dodge and Reset.

    New programs:

    Defensive (GADGET-DEF included in HD+/EVO/WHD/DHD // GADGET-DEF can be activated with a command token when playing second as EVO-GADGET programs)

    (GADGET-DEF) Overlooker (Surveillance, Optional): Entire order, Target Hackable HI/REM, 2 turns, Hacking area. HI gains 360 vision. When engaged and attacked by any BS attack, the trooper may dodge ignoring the LoF requisite.

    (GADGET-DEF) Martial Chip: Entire order, Target Hackable HI, 2 turns, Hacking area. Target HI replace his CC value for 18 and all his CC special skills for Natural Born Warrior. Natural Born Warrior from Martial Chip doesn’t grant the user Stealth.

    (GADGET-DEF) Hot Link (Priority, Surveillance): Entire order, Target Hackable HI/REM, 2 turns, Hacking area. Target HI/REM become Non-Hackable and cannot be targeted by Comm attacks while this program is active. Instead, the Hacker becomes a legal target for Hacking attacks and Comm attacks that could target him as if he were the Target HI/REM. The Hacker performs the action “Reset” instead of Idle in surveillance (ignoring “Reset” requirements).


    Utility/Defensive

    (GADGET-1) Private Commlink (Surveillance, Optional): Entire order, Target Hackable HI/REM/TAG/Hacker, Hacking area, 2 turns. While in (allied) Hacking Area, gain Veteran L1. The Hacking area (and whether the trooper has Veteran L1) is checked at the start and the end of each order.

    (UPGRADE // HD/HD+/AHD/WHD/DHD) Remote assistance: Entire Order. This program requires an Engineer in a non-null state in Hacking area. This Hacker may make a normal WIP roll to cancel states susceptible to being repaired by an engineer.

    (UPGRADE // HD+/AHD/WHD/DHD/EVO) Enlighten: Entire order, Hacking Area. Activate Target Hackable HI or Target Specialist and perform short or entire order skills with it as usual. During this order the activated trooper is considered Operative Specialist. Target trooper gets an extra MOD of -3 to any objective roll. If the target trooper was already a specialist, then the MOD is +3 instead. This ability cannot target the same hacker that performs it.

    (GADGET-1) Trauma Override (Priority, Surveillance, Linger): Entire order, Target Hackable HI/REM, roll required, 1 turn, Hacking area. Target gain V2:Dogged and Immunity (Stun); If target is already unconscious, he enters in the Dogged state. When the trooper enters in the Dogged state he also gains Impetuous, Religious troop, WIP-1, PH+1, Super-Jump and Fatality L1. If while target model is dogged the Hacker cannot perform the surveillance “idle”, target HI/REM enters in the Dead state.


    Utility/Order efficiency

    (GADGET- 1): Precise Data: Entire order, Targetless. Requisite: This hacker cannot be maintaining any Supportware. Generate 1 Cyber order per each non-null hacker in the table with the following exceptions: EVO hackers generate 2 cyber orders, the first KHD generate 1 Cyber order, after that you get 1 Cyberorder for each 2 KHDs. This hacker cannot use any Supportware program the rest of the turn.


    Ofensive (GADGET-AHD and UPGRADES only for AHD // GADGET-ADH can be activated with a command token when playing second as EVO-GADGET programs)

    (GADGET-AHD) Enhanced Sensors (Priority, Surveillance): Entire order, Target Hackable HI/REM, Hacking area, 2 turns. HI/REM gain Repeater, Sensor and Biometric Visor L1 while not isolated. Sensor doesn’t grant the ability Sensor:Triangulated Fire.

    (GADGET-AHD) Red Line: Entire order, Target Hackable HI/REM, Hacking area, 2 turns. HI gain movement 6-4 and Multiterrain. The first time this program is activated choose one type of terrain for Multiterrain and write it. Red Line’s Multiterrain will use that type of terrain for the rest of the game.

    (GADGET-AHD) Stimulants (Priority, Surveillance, Linger): Entire order, Target Hackable HI, Hacking area, 1 turn. HI gains impetuous, Religious troop, WIP-1, PH+1, Immunity (Stun) and Climbing Plus. If the Hacker cannot perform the surveillance “Idle”, Stimulants only grants Impetuous and WIP-1.

    (GADGET-AHD) Spotter (Surveillance): Entire order, Target Hackable HI/REM, Hacking area, 2 turns. Gain Visor-X and Markmanship LX.

    (GADGET-AHD) Wired Reflexes: Entire order, Target Hackable HI, Hacking area, 2 turns. Gain B 2 in ARO but reduces his BS in 1, this bonus doesn’t stack with the B of any other rule.


    New EVO programs:

    (GADGET-EVO): Booster (Priority): Entire order, All Hackers, Table, 2 turns. Generate 1 Support Order per each non-null hacker in the table. This EVO-Hacker can maintain this EVO-GADGET and other GADGET program at the same time. Up to 2 GADGET programs that may target HIs, can now choose an extra target who must be an HI (even if the primary target isn’t an HI); if Booster ends, GADGET programs stop working in the extra targets. GADGET programs with the surveillance label cannot benefice from booster extra target rule.

    (GADGET-EVO): Virtual Machine: Entire order, All Hackers, Table, 2 turns. Enemy Hackers cannot assign more than 2 dices of the B of his CLAW, SWORD and UPGRADE programs to allied Hackers, this limit is 1 versus this EVO Hacker (non-distributed B is lost). In addition, allied Hackers that lose the FTF roll doesn’t apply the effect of any special ammunition in the BTS roll when rolling for damage. These special rules are not applied when the Hacker could be targeted by the program without being a Hacker (for example a HI hacker attacked with Icebreaker)


    Examples:

    Hot Link Example 1:
    Achilles with Hot Link active (supported by a Danavas Hacker) enters in the range of an enemy Jammer using the short skill move and benefiting from stealth; the surveillance label also activate Danavas Hacker in this order who must declare Idle + Reset. A TO sniper reveals and ARO Achilles. Achilles decide to Dodge as his second short skill but this break stealth, being also in range of the enemy Jammer. Fortunatelly thanks to Hot Link Achilles is not a legal target for the Jammer, but Danavas is. Now the Danvas Hacker must declare Reset and try to counter the Jammer attack.

    Hot Link Example 2:
    A few actions later Achilles enters in the ZoC of an enemy repeater and breaks stealth to use BS attack. Achilles is an illegal target for the any hacking attack, but Danavas is. This let the enemy KHD and HD declare Oblivion and Redrum versus Danavas. Danavas will face his Reset versus both attacks.

    Hot Link Example 3:
    Miraculously, both survive the example 2. Before the active turn ends, the Aleph player have a tough decision. In the reactive turn and still in the enemy Hacking area the enemy KHD may target Danavas through the Hot Link, so canceling the supportware would be safer. However if he cancels the Hot Link, Achilles will become more vulnerable to enemy Jammers and HDs; in addition he will need to go back to his repeaters to activate Hot Link again (or use a pitcher; which is also risky versus a KHD)

    Remote assistance example:
    A nomad Szali is hitted by a E/M grenade and is in IMM-2 and Isolated states near of the center of the table. A clockmaker and his zondbot are too far from it, fortunatelly a Zero AHD is in a marker state nearby. Our brave Zero gets to b2b with the Szali and declares and Idle, in his next order he uses the entire order Skill Remote assistance (the clockmaker is in the hacking area thanks to a Transductor Zond). Our zero with WIP13 will have to roll against 13, at the second order he finally removes the states from the Szalli; that was a bit expensive in actions but at least the TAG is operative again.

    Private Commlink Example 1:
    A Mobile brigade had been hitted by an enemy hacker Oblivion in ARO, he is now outside the enemy Hacking area but Isolated state. Fortunately for him he is just next to an ally repeater, being in Hacking area of the Nomad player. An interventor targets him with the Private Commlink Supportware. In the next order, thanks to the Veteran L1 skill granted by the supportware he may activate, advance for cover and shoot (which also activates the interventor who idles).

    Private Commlink Example 2:
    The nomad player wants to activate the isolated Mobile brigade with Private Commlink again. This time, however, he is not sure whether the model is inside the Hacking area; the nomad players go ahead and declares that is going to activate the Mobile brigade, expend the order and check the hacking area. Unfortunately he misjudged and the Mobile brigade is just barely outside the Nomad player hacking area, the order is lost, neither the Mobile brigade nor the Interventor activates (nor generate any ARO).

    Enlighten Example 1:
    An Asawira regiment Haris managed to push past the half of the table, securing the area around a now unguarded enemy Antenna; but the Hassassin Bahram player lost the Doctor Plus in the process. One AHD Barid have LoF with the rest of the Haris, he uses his Pitcher to place a repeater near of said Antenna. Now said Barid may activate and declare Enlighten in one of the Assawiras; this activates the Asawira (breaking the Haris) who declares Move as the first skill of the order (provoking AROs), then as the second skill he can try to connect the Antenna with a -3 MOD, rolling versus 11.

    Trauma Override Example 1:
    A Military Orders player really want to alpha strike during his first turn with his Montesa Knight. He deploy his knight inside his Hacking Area. During his first turn he uses an Order Sergeant Hacker to activate Trauma Override in the Montesa (after rolling a 8). A few orders later the Montesa have already paid by himself but a FtF roll makes him reach 0 W; he isn’t in the Hacking Area anymore but as Trauma Override is already active, he can enters in the Dogged state. In addition to that, he gains the extra bonuses from the program (Impetuous, Religious troop, WIP-1(12), PH+1 (14), Super-Jump and Fatality L1). As trauma Override is a Surveillance program, the order sergeant activated and performed an Iddle in each activation of the knight (which forced him to leave the Sergeants Core)

    Red Line, Wired Reflexes and Booser Example 1:
    A Morat Agression Force player has choosen a Sogarat Duo as his Spearhead duo, but a dense table full of Jungle and Acuatic Terrain is hindering him. Fortunately this list includes a Zerat AHD and a E-Drone (EVO). The E-Drone activates Booster for 1 order, which gives the Morat player 2 Support Orders. He immediately uses one of said orders to activate the Zerat AHD and declares the use of Red Line in both Soragaths thanks to the Booser EVO program, this gives both Sogarats a movement attribute of 6-4 and Multiterrain, the Morat player chooses Jungle for the Multiterrain ability (he write down that choice because he must use it in any Future Red Line activation). Before the end of the turn the Zerat AHD cancels the Red Line and use the second Support order to activate the GADGET-AHD program Wired Reflexes in both Soragaths, giving both B2 during the reactive Phase.

    During the Reactive turn an AD trooper manage to put the E-Drone in a Null-state, this ends Booster and force the Morat Player to end the Wired Reflexes supportware effect from one of the 2 Soragaths.

    Martial Chip and Booster Example 1:

    An Invincible Army player playing a Yan Huo Haris is a bit worried about some warbands trying to snipe their heavy weapons in the opponent next turn. Fortunatelly he included a Pangguling EVO hacker. He activates Booster, which gives him one Support Order, which is used in the next order to activate Martial Chip in his two Yan Huos; now both Yan Huos will have a CC value of 18 and the ability Natural Born Warrior. Enemy warbands would still have the edge, but now the Yan Huos could try to stand a fight in CC.


    Virtual Machine and Hot Link example:

    Achilles is inside of the enemy Hacking area during his reactive turn, fortunately for him a Danavas Hacker has Hot Link supportware active. An enemy KHD decides to take advantage of this to target the Danavas Hacker through that supportware. The enemy KHD used trinity, however our Danavas has his back covered by a Provos EVO Hacker who is using Virtual Machine, reducing the B to 2 and making the Danavas immune to Shock. The KHD rolls a critical tho, Danvas suffers 1 W and fall unconscious. Hot Links ends but at least Danvas is alive to fight another day.

    Later that turn the enemy KHD enter in the range of one of the Aleph repeaters with the intention of finishing the Danavas Hacker, unfortunatelly for him Virtual Machine is still active and will prevent him to try to finish the unconscious Hacker. He will have to kill, isolate or disable the EVO hacker first to end Virtual Machine. However with that EVO-GADGET active, he is a hard nut to crack in cybercombat as he can only assign 1 die of the B of his programs to him. However if more enemy hackers were avaliable, the KHD would be able to distribute the B following the limits stated in Virtual Machine. Maybe sending a TO, an AD or use some speculatives to “disable” the EVO hacker would be better.

    Precise Data, Booster, Buffer Loaded and Cyber orders Example 1:

    A Neoterran Panoceania player wants to take advantage of their cutting edge array of REMs and good HI shooters thanks to the new supportware. For this he included 1 Mulebot EVO hacker, 1 Bolt AHD and a Bolt KHD (70 points 1 SWC, 3 regular orders). This will let him generate 3 Support Orders thanks to Booster and 4 Cyber Orders thanks to Precise Data for a strong HI and REM play.

    Support orders let him activate Supportware and other non-offensive hacking programs; Cyber orders can only activate hackable HI and REMs but are incompatible with the use of Supportware and will break links as they are considered irregular orders. Any model that uses a Cyber order would enter in the Overloaded state, being unable to use benefice from supportware this turn.

    Our Neoterran player has to balance well the use of these orders and supportware. The Buffer Loaded state won’t let the use of a Cyber Order in a model that is using or had already used a Supportware this turn. This forces the player to choose between the use of the powerful Assisted Fire in his REMs, or an extra order for them. Similarly, the Aquila guard has to choose between an extra shoot thanks to a Cyber order or gaining the Visor-X and Markmanship LX thanks to Spotter. However the Overloaded state won’t stop the activation of further supportware, so the player may still set up useful supportware in ARO in these models.


    Version 1.0:

    In the thread "The heavy infantry Problem" an idea to enable HI was increase the amount of supportware for these; I really liked the idea, so I’m going to elaborate that a bit more here. It would also enable Hackers (who are a risky investment most of the time unless you are going heavy into REMs). The idea is give high synergy to the Hackable and E/M vulnerable units with the Hacking; while also making up for the higher cost and low number of orders of these lists with high efficiency and utility. I want to give credit to @Ayadan @Savnock @toadchild @Mahtamori @Hachiman Taro @Cartographer and @Ceilican for the ideas I’ve borrowed from the thread https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/the-heavy-infantry-problem.33848/page-17

    Design idea: HD devices will have access to the most basic of the new tools, mainly defensive and utility GADGET. EVO and HD+ would have access to most of the new programs with the exception of the offensive support programs. WHD and DHD will have access to all the defensive new tools. The AHD have been favored here as it is the most situational of all HDs and it’s also quite expensive; so it’s the only HD with access to the more powerful offensive support programs and can also run the order management programs reserved for HD+ and EVO. I've focused the supportware in HI and REM mainly. I've included TAGs in some of them, however as the TAGs could be opressive when well supported I haven't included them in too many programs.

    The big game changers utility wise accessible with only a HD would be Private Commlink, that would make the unit immune to isolation while in Hacking area, Remote assistance or Enlighten, that let mid field hacker behave as Doctors or Engineers and the HI/REAM as specialists.

    If the player include the more expensive HD+ or EVO, new powerful options like Power Up, Command Link or Marshal will give him the ability to get extra actions or perform command token level of actions thanks to their Hackers. Also 3 new EVO-GADGET give extra utility: Booster enable lists with 2 or 3 hackers heavily focused in HI and/or REMs, increasing the efficiency of the buffs while also reducing the unkeep costs of these. On the other Hand Virtual Machine will make a great job keeping the enemy KHD at bay and Wired Reflexes will keep the force safe versus less technological focused enemies.

    The AHD is the only that can access to new powerful buffs like the increased mobility of Red Line, the marker states for HI and REMs thanks to Cybercloak and Electric Dreams or the simple but effective BS and damage increase of Spotter; the AHD have also access to Enhanced Sensors which would give them the edge in the mid field.

    More defensive players can increase even more the resilience and close combat abilities of its REMs and His thanks to Servostabilizers, Overlooker IceIceIce or Cyberalert.



    New programs:

    Defensive (GADGET-DEF included in HD+/EVO/WHD/DHD // GADGET-DEF can be activated with a command token when playing second as EVO-GADGET programs)

    (GADGET-DEF) Servostabilizers: Target HI/REM, 2 turns, Table. Being critically hit still make the trooper to lose the FTF roll, but the hit doesn’t skip the ARM/BTS/PH rolls to generate wounds/states. The trooper gains +1 PH and +1 CC.

    (GADGET-DEF) Overlooker (optional): Target HI/REM, 2 turns, Table. Activate HI also activate Hacker (Hacker idle), HI gains 360 vision and may dodge while engaged ignoring the LoF requisite. During ARO if this supportware is used, the Hacker cannot declare any ARO.

    (GADGET-DEF) Cyber Alert (optional): Target HI/REM, 2 turns, Table. Target gain the Sixth Sense L2 ability; he may consider enemies inside the Hacking area as enemies inside his own ZoC when using Sixth Sense L2.

    (SHIELD-2) IceIceIce. Automatic Skill (cost no order), Table. If a TAG/REM/HI is affected by an state that can be canceled by Reset, that model may immediately use Reset with a MOD of -6. This happens during the conclusion of the order and it generates no further ARO, it doesn’t matter how many hackers have this program, only 1 Reset is allowed. This ability may be used in the active or reactive turn during the conclusion of the order IF the Hacker hasn’t been activated during that order.

    (GADGET-EVO) Wired Reflexes. 2 turns, Table. All HI/REM/TAG gain Kinematica 1 and rolls 2 die instead of 1 when using Dodge (not Engage).

    (GADGET-EVO): Virtual Machine: Hackers, Table. All allied Hackers suffer an extra MOD of -3 to all Hacking rolls (not Reset) and the maximum B of his programs is limited to 2. Enemy Hacker’s CLAW and SWORD programs B are limited to 1 when they target an allied Hacker. The B is not limited when the Hacker could be targeted by the program without being a Hacker (for example a HI hacker attacked with Icebreaker)


    Utility/Defensive

    (GADGET-1) Private Commlink: Target HI/REM/TAG/Hacker, Hacking area, 2 turns. While in (allied) Hacking Area, gain Veteran L1.

    (UPGRADE // HD/HD+/WHD/DHD) Remote assistance: This program requires an Engineer or a Doctor (any level) in a non-null state in Hacking area. Hacker may use the Engineer (requires non-null Eng) or Doctor (requires non-null Doctor) abilities.

    (UPGRADE // HD/HD+/WHD/DHD) Enlighten: Activate Target HI/REM in Hacking Area, during this order the activated trooper is considered Operative Specialist.

    (GADGET-1) Clear! (optional): Target HI/REM unconscious state, 2 turns, table. Target gain V:NWI. Activate HI/REM also activate Hacker (Hacker idle). HI/REM suffers an extra -3 MOD to all rolls. Activate target also activate Hacker (Hacker idle). During ARO if this supportware is used, the Hacker cannot declare any ARO. If a model has been activated during a turn thanks to this supportware, he must perform a PH+3 normal roll at the end of the turn; if he fails this roll he enters in the Dead state immediately.


    Utility/Ofensive (GADGET-AHD and UPGRADES only for AHD)

    (UPGRADE // AHD) Cybercloak: Target HI/REM, Hacking area, roll required, cannot target same hacker that uses the program, NFB. Target enters in the IMP-2 state (require the trooper to not being in LoF; the trooper activates and perform and Idle during this action)

    (UPGRADE // AHD) Electric Dreams: Target HI/REM, Hacking area, roll required, cannot target same hacker that uses the program, NFB. Target enters in the HOLO-2 state (require the trooper to not being in LoF; the trooper activates and perform and Idle during this action).

    (GADGET-AHD) Enhanced Sensors: Target HI/REM, roll required. HI/REM/TAG gain Repeater, Sensor, Sat-Lock and FO while not isolated; these abilities are modified as follow: Sensor doesn’t grant Sensor:Triangulated Fire, FO doesn’t grant the user a Flash Pulse nor the specialist status.

    (GADGET-AHD) Red Line: Target HI/REM, Hacking area, 2 turns, roll required. HI gain movement 6-4 and Climbing Plus.

    (GADGET-AHD) Spotter: Target HI/REM/TAG, 2 turns, roll required. Gain BS+1 and Fatality L1.


    Utility/Order efficiency (GADGET-PLUS for HD+, AHD, EVO)

    (GADGET- PLUS) Marshal: Roll required (WIP+3), 2 turns. If the Supportware is activated, the order is refunded. A hacker may try to activate this program for free during the Deployment phase; if he fails the roll, the hacker doesn’t generate any order in the Order Count Phase. During the order count phase, you may convert up to 2 irregular orders in regular orders, the regular orders must be allocated in the same combat group. Limit: 1 per player.

    (GADGET- PLUS) Command Link: Target HI, 2 turns + 1 turn, Hacking area. HI gain Libero (3 turns) and NCO (2 turns).

    (GADGET- PLUS): Power Up, Target HI/REM, 2 turns. HI/REM generates an irregular order in addition to the order he normally generates; this irregular order cannot be converted in a regular order. Limit: 2 Power Up active per player.

    (GADGET-EVO): Booster: HI and REM may benefice for 2 GADGET programs at the same time. If a hacker successfuly activates a GADGET program that target a HI/REM, the order is refunded in the conclussion of the order; each hacker can only get 1 order refund per turn. This EVO-Hacker can maintain this EVO-GADGET and other GADGET program at the same time. Up to 2 GADGET or UPGRADE programs that may target 1 allied HI/REM, can now target 1 extra HI/REM.


    I’m conscious that there are probably too many programs; and probably some of them could be too niche/powerful; this is just a brainstorming. I’d love to have a wide array of Support programs, but I’m sure this isn’t everyone cup of tea. Thoughts? Any other program that would be cool to have?

    EDIT: New version Wired Reflexes and Booster
    Initial versions:
    (GADGET-EVO) Wired Reflexes. 2 turns, Table. All HI/REM/TAG gain +3 Dodge (stack other Dodge MODS) and rolls 2 die instead of 1 when Dodging.
    (GADGET-EVO): Booster: HI and REM may benefice for more than 1 GADGET programs at the same time. If a GADGET program is affecting an HI/REM, it doesn’t get cancelled after a set number of turns; this EVO-Hacker can maintain 1 EVO-GADGET and 1 GADGET program at the same time. Each GADGET or UPGRADE program that may target 1 allied HI/REM, can now target 1 extra HI/REM.
     
    #1 Ogid, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    Hachiman Taro likes this.
  2. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2018
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    701
    I think most of them are too powerful.
    Especially when you consider that the hacking factions will benefit the most,
    while non-hacking factions will not benefit at all.

    Just keep in mind that many of those programs will not work on fireteams
    (make the HI/REM/Hacker drop out of it),
    when you activate a HI/REM and the hacker.

    Why only HI/REM, but no buffs for TAGs?
    Aren't they like a large combination of HI and REM?
     
  3. SpectralOwl

    SpectralOwl White-Faced Invincible

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    637
    Big one I'd think would be fair would go along the lines of:
    GADGET-1: Zombie: Unconscious HI in Hacking Area are placed in V:Dogged state.

    Would allow a failed offensive a chance to break through, or a downed and out-of-position trooper to walk back to a doctor.

    Honestly a good thing. At the moment every Yu Jing player I know would gladly trade their AHDs and KHDs for the unhackable status of Ariadna or Tohaa. Simply opting out of the hacking game is often a cheaper and more powerful option than trying to play it, unless you have access to the advanced programs available to only three factions. Better access to programs that help a player rather than hindering a subset of enemies would even it up a good deal; just look at how popular Assisted Fire and White Noise are in comparison to just about everything else.
     
    Ogid and Savnock like this.
  4. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    745
    The low synergy with fireteams is intended, these are powerful enough without needing extra buffs.
    It's true that the heavy hacking faction would benefice the most but it's a try to solve the problem of bring 1 or 2 HDs versus a full LI/MI army; you can still use your AHD to buff your units for example instead or being stuck with a unit with suboptimal weapons and a AHD.
    The order focused are powerful but these require the most expensive HDs and I've included limits per player so they couldn't be abused; the most offensive programs are in AHD only, which are also expensive and aren't generally in line troopers. So if you want to use these, you will need to pay and expose your AHD early; which will make him vulnerable to enemy KHDs and will reduce their ability to catch enemy HI and TAGs.

    I was a bit afraid to include too many TAGs buffs, most of these are defensive/utility buffs, which are better the most sturdy the model is. The TAGs can still benefice a lot from these; for example Remote asistence could let you repair/cancel states easier, and a few of them like Wired Reflexes (Dodge) or Private Commlink (counter isolate) also works in TAGs
     
    Harlekin and Savnock like this.
  5. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    1,131
    Two issues with this style:
    1. “Roll required”. Buff programs do not, historically, require rolls.
    2. It would be more consistent if the hacker was considered to be running supportware while the state persisted.

    I’ve quoted you once, but the same feedback really applies to several of your examples. No using random rolls for buff programs, and if you have a limit in mind for how many any give hacker can give out at one time, you’ve got to say so.
     
    Ogid and Savnock like this.
  6. RedeemedRyan

    RedeemedRyan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    8
    I think the idea of HI having their own specific set of supportware/hacking programs is really interesting, and certainly helps balance the fact that they are vulnerable to hacking. It also expands hacking in a direction that isn't necessarily adding depth (like multiple devices) but I think, breadth of applicability. Which I think is needed in order to make hacking feel like an option you would regularly take in your army lists.

    That being said, I also agree that the vast majority of the programs listed here are too powerful. I think the noteworthy exceptions are Private Commlink (I think this is very reasonable!) and Cyber Alert (especially given that these actions are not compatible with fireteams).

    One solution for trying to keep these balanced, albeit less creative, would be to pull from CB's already established supportware programs for REMs. I think a reasonable program for HI would be Overclock (+1 B in ARO). Or it could give the HI Full Auto Lv1 (+ B in Active Turn). This would help compensate for not being able to be a part of a fireteam, but having to bring a consequent hacker with the supportware (and spend the order).

    I think a cool program could be to give the HI an AutoMedKit. That doesn't seem to broken to me, but also seems interesting and powerful.

    Oh, I think a cool option would also be Marksmanship LX. Since this is a situational ability, it doesn't seem to abusive. However, this would drastically increase a HI's ability to win FTF rolls outside of a fireteam, and I think would be comparable to the Assisted Fire Supportware program given to REMs.

    Love the initiative of this, though! I think it's a really cool area of design space to explore.
     
    Ogid, Berjiz and Savnock like this.
  7. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    745
    Ty for the feedback guys. I'm sure these aren't perfectly balanced, this is more about exploring possiblities.

    However mind that most of these requires taking HD+ AHD or EVO hackers; if you want to go heavy in buffs you will need at least a EVO (for Booster) and either a HD+ or a AHD or even both to get the best defensive/ofensive buffs; those mean a lot of points and 1- 1,5 SWC in support that aren't going toward the abitual cheap order spam and heavy weapons; so the programs should be good.

    I do think that most of them are fine, the ones probably too powerful are Wired Reflexes (I have to tone down that one), Enhanced Sensor gives a lot of utility (but I've stripped the most powerful ofensive tools from Sensor) so I have also doubts with this one (maybe removing Repeater?). Power up and Marshal gives extra order management; but these are only avaliable in the most expensive HDs and if you are running these you aren't using the other support programs that directly buff the units so I think they are mostly fine. The marker states are quite powerful but these require a AHD and exposing it even if the AHD trooper have a marker state (NFB label). Booster is the one that would need to get tested to prevent, maybe it'd need a limit to number of double target and non cancelled programs.
    I've tried to give the hackers a lot of answers and flexibility, but they are still limited to 1 supportware active.

    Yes, this is true. This was a conscious decision, the GADGET-AHD are powerful buffs; I wanted to limit how reliable they are with a roll. However cybermask (that also grants a marker state) does require a roll; both Electric Dreams and Cybercloak are based in that one.

    Ty for the feedback. I've tried to avoid ofensive buffs as powerful to those; the BS and resilience of the HIs is way better than the REMs, with those buffs they could get out of hand easily.

    Those could be good subtitutes for my Clear!; It's true that mine would allow the model to walk toward a doctor, but the HI would be at -3 to every roll (including dodge) so it could be shot down easier; and going back to get healed will be a lot of orders.

    <3


    What do you think about these 2?
    Remote assistance is powerful but it's not in a KHD or a AHD that are the most common mid field HDs, but could enable some less used HD profiles.
     
    #7 Ogid, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    Savnock likes this.
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,298
    Likes Received:
    8,370
    I think I'd rather call Clear! "Trauma Override" (as in the Trauma Override Harness zombies).
     
    Ogid likes this.
  9. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,829
    Likes Received:
    2,335
    It is an interesting idea, but I have a small problem with it: Achilles.

    It is true that 45% of the Tohaa lineup are multiwound troopers, but Tohaa's Hackers, IP's and TAG are not unhackable.
     
    Ogid and Savnock like this.
  10. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    745
    Lol, I've not played Fallout, but just googled it and it's just the idea. Noted!

    Yes, that's a very good point; these should get balanced with the top dogs in mind. However I'm not that used with Aleph.
    Could anyone post one or two lists with at least an EVO and a AHD/HD+ (with those 2 would be enough to put 2 buffs in blondie); if more HI could be added then an extra HD+ would be also great to buff both of them at the same time.

    Which ones would be too much on him?
    The advantage is that Achilles already have mov 6-4 and Kinematica so Red Line and Wired Reflexes doesn't give him the full buff. However it'd give him climbing plus and 2 dices dodging which could be very good on him...
    Overlooker and Cyberalert could be fine on him, would make him harder to ambush.
    Servostabilizers would make him sturdier and the +1PH and CC are perfect for him... this is very good on him.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,298
    Likes Received:
    8,370
    I'd make HI supportware work just like REM supportware, you can only get one buff at a time.
     
  12. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    321
    Simply having several variations of the vanilla HD, and denying the programs with the strongest applications to ALEPH and Phalanx, would fix the problem.

    I'm gonna reiterate what I said when I first saw these - I would like to see hackers be vulnerable, in a similar fashion to repeaters, through the trooper they are supporting. That goes a fair bit towards accounting for the power that these types of programs give.
     
  13. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    720
    I really like the idea. Hacking giving extra utility is a very fluffy idea to the genre (think Wetware in Cyberpunk) and Hacking outside supportware and killer hacking is way too marginal for the cost and complexity, and is too often a disadvantage for high tech factions IMHO.

    It would have to be play test obviously, but it would make an excellent game supplement.

    I'd love some more simple utility programs like:

    (GADGET): Wetware: (x). 1 Turn Trooper with cube. The targeted model gains the skill (x). [Climbing +, Martial Arts etc]

    (GADGET): Open Says Me Unlocked Doors. Instant. Hacker may open one unlocked door in hacking area.

    (GADGET): Virtual Assistant: Specialists. 1 Turn.Targeted specialist gains +3 mod for any WIP roll to achieve a mission objective.
     
    Ogid likes this.
  14. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    745
    It still works like that, in normal conditions you can only benefice from 1 Supportware at a time, the EVO program Booster increase that to 2 only in HI and REM (but you will need to include at least 2 Hackers for that).

    mmm, I didn't considered that one... It wouldn't be my first choice as I'd like to give all armies more or less the same tools; but if the blondie would become a bottleneck for this kind of programs it could be a way to bypass that. Ty for the idea!

    Even if the program are good they are suporting expensive troops, a player cannot spare HI like he can spam LI; a list would have 2 good HI attack pieces maximum; REMs are cheaper, but they get less advantages than the HIs from these programs (the ofensive supportware in game is more powerful and they won't survive that long when exposed to make good use of the defensive buffs). Also, the new programs are good and give some extra tools, but they won't stop a model from dying if they are catched by an HMG in good range, just kill/control the good targets for these programs and all the expensive support would be dead weight. Also if a player include too many points in HDs and HI, they will have some buffed spearheads but it will lack orders or surprises (CAMO/TO/AD...), so it's a trade at the end. Also Hackers are quite vulnerable to enemy KHDs, and other pieces likes AD or TO could be used to snipe them.
    Some programs like Overlooker, IceIceIce or Clear! (aka Trauma Override) don't let the hacker activate at the same time than the supported model... maybe the more powerful programs could get the NFB trait so the Hacker cannot protect himself with a marker state while using it.


    mmm, I'll review the programs again considering the top dogs. In addition to Achilles, which other HIs are the most fearsome? From the top of my head: Aquila/Asura, Su-Jian, Kriza, Charontids and Anathematics. Is any other that I should consider?
     
    #14 Ogid, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,298
    Likes Received:
    8,370
    I'd also look at what the JSA can do, Domaru, Tanko, Shikami, and Karakuri may get some gross benefits.

    Don't forget the Invincible Army is packing 5+ HI pretty trivially.
     
    Ogid and Abrilete like this.
  16. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    745
    Ty, I'll also consider these :ok_hand:
     
  17. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    261
    I love this Idea it is a far more then buffing HI profile or making them cheaper as it provides more interesting game play options and may make people learn the hacking side of the game properly.
    Two things though;
    1. SSL2 is insanely powerful and removes a lot of counter play options from your opponent and idiot proofs game play for the user as they don't have to worry about proper positioning, LOF or supporting forward elements. I'd down grade it to L1 (or burn that section of the rulebook either works)
    2. While the top end HI (Kriza, Achilles, Aquila, Hac Tao, Karakuri, etc.) may get turned up to 13, it will bring up all the other HI into them being considered at list construction. Also the power level of the top pieces will be self balanced because more people will be bring their own hacking meaning they will have to deal with being immobilised and isolated as they run up the table and if the support ware requires a wip roll.

    To answer counter arguments;
    It's too powerful or they're not vulnerable etc. - Bring a KHD or two. Most people seem to believe that this tool has gutted the hacking game so use it as intended. Even a standard HD(+) from behind a tinbot has a good chance of melting someone's brain.

    I can't Hack or something along those lines - It's about time being low tech had actual tangible in game drawbacks instead of just being an advantage. Most low tech factions have access to other equally effective tools to deal with these kinds of threats running up the table (See jammers, E/M weapons, and warbands).
     
    Ogid and Hachiman Taro like this.
  18. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    386
    HI-buff programs are a cool idea, and the real goal of them is to make mid-points-range hackable HI more worth their cost.

    The best design involves minimal intervention and tweaks. Use existing rules where possible, especially to describe effects.

    The challenge is to avoid benefits spilling onto high-end HI or other units that are nicely balanced now (like REMs) too much. So choose effects that either duplicate what high-end HI already have, or are of minimal value except very specific circusmtances. Also no way this stuff should go on a TAG, or even REMs. Costs/value would go out of whack fast.

    A possible elegant way to fit them into current design space is to only give these to DHDs and WHDs as you suggested, but not shoehorn them onto AHDs etc. It makes DHDs actually worth something.

    The programs you posted @Ogid have some interesting ideas, but I agree with others that they are largely too powerful and too many. Focusing on say 3-4 new Gadget programs that affect HI with the Hackable trait would be good. You could also toss in 1 or 2 Upgrade programs for specifc units/characters with some of the cooler effects that would be overpowered if too widely available.

    Also the Daoying hacker should probably get one of these programs as an Upgrade for its basic HD, as its specific unit role is hacking support for HI.

    The following programs you mentioned fir inside the not-too-much range while still buffing mid-cost HI well, IMO.

    Overlooker: A program that gives troopers exta danger awareness is cool. I'd say just grant the 360 Visor piece of equipment while the program is active. It will be useful on Supp Fire troops for sure. Again, using existing rules here for effects is good. This one could be really powerful on nasty TO troops, but it's really just reducing one avenue of attack against them at the cost of an order.

    Enlighten: A granted specialist ability is also cool. It is overly fluid to grant Doctor or Engineer to random HI, but being able to give them the generic Specialist rule is great. Definitely simulates being able to give them data and skill assists, without making investments in actual Doctors and Engineers a moot point. Similarly I wouldn't give existing Specialists a +3 as their general high WIP is decent enough.

    This program could maybe be too powerful if applied to Achilles or a Charontid (too easy to concenteate orders on one mega-rambo). If so then maybe it should grant Specialist but rolls are at -3. Then it at least is a trade-off vs. using a normal specialist trooper.

    The door-opening program: Making Lockpicker work in Hacking Area instead of B to B is a good idea. I've played it that way already, lots of fun. This would actually be a good addition to AHDs, an exception to not trying to shoehorn much new stuff onto them.

    Private Commlink: This is one of your best suggestions. Giving Veteran 1 while in Repeater range with this program is a really, really cool idea. It also balances out the vulnerabilities of mid-range HI and massed HI to Jammers and E/M really well, but requires a bit of order and gear investment to do so. It can be canceled by an opponent using Blackout. It makes comms gear more important. And it is a tiny step towards balancing Jammers. A really, really cool and balanced idea. Also might make sense to add to EVO remotes, especially since that would get this into Invincible Army where it is very much needed.

    Wired Reflexes: No need to get complex with this. While adding an extra die to Dodge rolls is interesting, it breaks with the pattern of 1-die Dodge rolls elsewhere in the game. Definitely one for the numbers folks to look at. A simpler approach would be just to grant Hyperdynamics L1 while in effect. Also shouldn't/wouldn't stack with existing Hyperdynamics units.

    Clear! or some sort of walking zombie program is an interesting idea, but too poweful if it uses the trooper's normal profile and abilities. Maybe it should allow you to grant the NWI state to an HI trooper, but that trooper is then limited to
    Move skills. Or you could use the Possesed statline that a hacked TAG uses. This is definitely one to restrict to an Uprgrade program on just one unit/character, mostly to likit the power but also to keep it characterful. Excellent creepy thing for an Umbra to have, for example.

    The Sensor one: Like granting specialist Doctor or Engineer skills wherever you want on the battlefield, this one could also get out of hand real fast. So keep it really basic: have it grant the HI Sensor maybe, but at a -3 or -6. Or even give the HI a Biometric Visor instead, while the program is in effect.

    None of the above strike me as being out of control on Achilles or a Charontid, with the possible exception of the Specialist one.
     
    #18 Savnock, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
    Ogid, Abrilete and toadchild like this.
  19. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    386
    One more thing to consider: Tohaa HIs are Hackable, but their repeater nets to support their few hackers suck. This is a good thing..do they still have a DHD option?

    Ariadna though... Besides Vet Kazaks, their HI really suck. While not a great fluff fit sue to being Unhackable. maybe these buffs wouldn't be out of hand for them, in range of their own few hackers? Again their nonexistent repeaternet limits this nicely, but Isobel supporting a Grey would be cool.

    Might not fit on non-Hackable HI though, if our goal is to make the Hackable trait have some benefits.
     
    #19 Savnock, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  20. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    261
    The only Ariadnan HI that would get benefits are the Blackjack and Ratnik being the only hackable HI they have
     
    Abrilete likes this.