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Co-ordinated shooting against hard AROs in JSA

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Ecthelion, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. Ecthelion

    Ecthelion Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, just wanted your opinion on something. I've been going up often against a core-linked Knight of Justice with Missile Launcher these days. It's not quite that she's been completely dominating me or anything, but that mini-Joan is obviously quite a tough cookie to crack. Unless I get good, consistent use out of our very limited smoke and/or get a strong alpha strike in with an Oniwaban, I often find these guys to be pretty oppressive with their high BS, high ARM/crazy high BTS, and of course, SSL2 from the link.

    My usual smoke thrower is obviously Yojimbo, but he usually doesn't survive until Turn 2/3, crazed biker ronin that he is. Which got me thinking if I should try out co-ordinated shots; after all, unopposed panzerfausts and missiles should have a pretty good chance at hurting almost anything.

    Yuriko is my first choice as a 0 SWC panzerfaust that's a solid shooter (for JSA) that brings a lot of other utility. She's not particularly cheap, but cheap enough that I wouldn't mind her dying to take out a linked KoJ. With her higher BS, she has a 48% chance of hurting a KoJ in cover unopposed.

    The Keisotsu ML is the other obvious candidate; in good range and unopposed, they have an ok chance at hurting a KoJ (42.5%), even with their abysmal BS10. Not great, but acceptable, I think; and likely the best utility I'll get out of these models.

    The Daiyokai is the other 0 SWC panzerfaust option, but he's obviously a prime target for a linked ML. With his higher BS, his chances are at 55% unopposed, but the KoJ will absolutely shoot back at him; the calculator gives the KoJ a 72.5% chance of hurting the Daiyokai, and 29% chance of inflicting 3 or more wounds and taking him out entirely. Pretty strong reason to not include the Daiyokai in this maneuver.

    The Ryuken HRL caught my eye at first, until I realized (if I'm not mistaken) that I won't be able to use surprise shot in a co-ordinated order. Which means he'll lose his limited camo by revealing, and just be a dude with an HRL for the rest of the game. Besides, with only 1 shot and the KoJ's high armor, he'll only have a 29.7% chance of wounding.

    Then we have the Tanko: their options are ML(55%)/Flammenspeer(32%)(/Blitzen(35.6%). The Blitzen isn't actually that dangerous to a KoJ even with EM2 thanks to their crazy BTS; ML is obviously solid, but I'm probably only bringing one if I'm taking a Musashi Haris. I'm probably breaking my core link to co-ordinate anyway; if I break both my Haris and Core links, that's 1 command token for coordinated shooting, and 2 more to reform links. That's 3 out of 4. Maybe it'll be worth it, but it's obviously not ideal.

    The one other unit I'm considering is the Husong Yaokong TR bot. Since the spearhead gets half burst, it would make sense to include at least 1 weapon with B3 or above. At B2, a Husong Yaokong has a 39.9% chance of inflicting a wound unopposed against a KoJ in cover. Not bad.

    Final note - I thought the Ninja MSR might be cool to include in something like this, but she's obviously rather expensive (as we all know), and I suspect she won't be around very long with the advent of N4. With a single DA shot, the MSR ninja has a 33.9% chance of hurting a KoJ unopposed; but in FtF, even with TO camo, the KoJ's crazy BS means she'll still have a 43.7% chance of taking out the Ninja. Similar to the Daiyokai, I don't think it's worth the risk.

    All of these factors combined - I'm considering Yuriko, 2 Keisotsu ML, and a Husong Yaokong. That's 4.5 SWC total, but as long as I build my list around them, I don't think I'll be that starved for SWC, as long as I choose from our many threats that don't cost any.

    Just thought I'd throw this spiel out there. I still think my best option is what I've been doing - either smoke and ignore while playing the objective, or cripple the fireteam from the weakest link with a strong alpha strike if the opportunity presents itself. Still, I do like the idea of just opening up with a volley of anti-armor and blowing the KoJ out of the water on the first order of turn 1. I'm aware other factions can do this kind of thing much more cheaply and easily, but as JSA players who struggle against strong, long-range, hard AROs and have difficulty breaking out of DZ, I began wondering what other players' thoughts and experiences were.
     
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  2. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Face it with a Karakuri Haris? No more than a wound on them...
    Go with Oniwaban / Kitsune to get rid of his fireteam mates? No more BS+3 bonus make them way less scary...
    Smoke (from Yojimbo) + Assisted Fire (from a Hacker / EVO) + MSV2 Spitfire (from a Rui Shi)? Mind me, you have to NOT shot the KoJ but the teammates first...
    If you feel lucky, Musashi has a Flash Pulse with WIP 15. Do not count on it, but definitely don't want to forget...
     
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  3. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
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    I'd second that either a Ninja, or a Oniwaban are your best bet. JSA is not famous for its CC units for nothing. Ninja because silent Tactical Bow is nice, Oniwaban because Nanopulser/Boarding Shotgun is very nice.
    If they live through it, and can engage on CC even better!
    I like Rui Shi too, but ninja are cooler.
     
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  4. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Just remember that a 4+ members Fireteam has Sixth Sense, so Surprise Shot and Surprise Attack won't work.
    OTOH Silent seems to work anyway, if you manage to get out of LoF...
     
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  5. Ecthelion

    Ecthelion Well-Known Member

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    Well, I tried the coordinated shot last game and it worked. Yuriko's panzerfaust and one of the keisotsu ML landed, causing 6 wounds and taking the KoJ out. I did have to fire the TR bot and one of the keisotsu from the same gap in order to achieve this though, which meant they both got wiped when the ML shot back at one of them, winning the ftf and hitting both templates. Obviously worth it though, my opponent was relying quite a bit on that hard ARO and he didn't see it coming. It was a friendly game, so I think I've done him a service.

    I don't run Karakuri since I don't like their models, and sortakinda expect total immunity to be tweaked in N4. I can see them being a relatively safe way to try and engage a linked ML, but getting out of DZ will probably still be a pain since they don't have any long range weapons. Of course, if I'm able to successfully smoke up a few key firelanes, this would absolutely be an option.

    Alpha striking with oniwaban or just blinding the fireteam with Shinobu is how I've been dealing with the link so far. Going after the link is easier when the linked ML is on top of a building and some of the weaker links are in separate levels, making it possible to try and assassinate them to break the link bonus. Otherwise, especially when there's something else (like a Nisse haris or TR bot overwatching the core link), it gets a lot more dicey.

    Mostly, I'd been playing with the idea of a coordinated shot for a while, and was thinking about potential options for it in JSA. I'm pretty sure I'll be doing it far more often in White Banner or something though, since they get some really easy access to panzerfausts in the Long Ya.
     
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  6. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Considered the Ninja AHA, just keep him out of sight and out of range of an enemy hacker then freeze his KoJ for hard squirming when you move a gunfighter into position for some unopposed shots, unless, you think for less points invested and your opponent has a hacker in his core fireteam, you could just send in a Ninja Killer Hacker... Cyber kill his hacker in the fireteam, then use the ninja's CC skills for the rest of the chumps or after that +3 BS bonus is gone, then you can shoot at the KoJ with less risk... Just some ideas, maybe the AHA is a hard press against the KoJ but I'm sure he's got a push over hacker in their that can't take a KHD
     
    #6 wuji, Aug 17, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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