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Close Combat Tips & Tricks

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Yasashii Fuyu, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    I have been playing a lot of Yu Jing and ISS in my recent months and even years after originally starting Infinity with JSA, and frankly have not been using Close Combat as often as I should have in those factions.

    Now that I'm back to JSA, I feel like I need to polish up my CC skills, and since I have seen a few here mentioning dirty close combat tricks, I thought why not ask around for them!

    So here you go, please post your Close Combat tactics, Tips & (dirty) Tricks which will help improve our chances of getting into, and winning, close combat scenarios, as I'm sure all JSA players will find themselves in plenty such scenarios eventually...
     
  2. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    Most of the trick i know involve Shaolins, and smoke thing that the new JSA isn't well provaided.

    -Against other high CC oponents with only one wound( from speculo to spetnaz), if you have surprise attack go for it, if not shot them or use the knife. Using the silent attack with a knife it's a bit risky but with a ninja in theory you should win. Going ftf roll against a Spetnaz with a ninja is too risky for my expirience.

    -One hunting party remember that all CC specialist can hunt very well using his pistol in cc.

    -Same goes for low ph models like the Pheasant.

    -With martial art go always to the critic use level 3 or 4 always. Level 5 only to kill links with a few orders ( still risky) or to face strong CC oponents ( even aquiles is week against a surprise attack + MA 5 from shinobu kitsune).

    - never put your models with smoke in the same group as your CC specialist. Being able to move a Shaolin ( or Yojimbo) to use smoke granades to cover your ninja for example allow you to do heavy missile tactic.

    -missile tactic: if you need some model to die hard ( unless we speak about some joan/aquiles/avatar) consider using your main order pool to move a ninja crossing the map to do a kamikaze attack. People tend to underestimate how deadly can be a ninja if you have to cross the map.

    -With heavy CC Infantery links you can consider some times to tank shots from aro pices. Sometimes is worth to lose a wound or a member from the link and get in close range.

    -use coordinate orders to move your CC specialist to mid table while you shot someone.

    -With Saito/kitsune: if you have them in a big group consider deploying safe and use some especulative shot with the granades.

    -Unless you see something very worth to kill like a Tag or a leutinent, don't use your superior infiltration/fidays on the first turn. The second round is always easy beacuse most of the enemy models are dead or moving.

    -With Umbra Samaritan always go against the warband/midfield infiltrator. If you get the +1 or +2 wounds you become a very strong rambo that can tank shot and charge face to face ( and unless you face the broken muttas you beacome the supreme midfield clean machine xd)

    I don't know more than dirty tricks this are general advices to decide when and how to use CC (most of them for vanilla Yu Jing xd, we will miss kitsune). To best way to get on CC is teamwork with other non CC unit.

    Pd:excuse my bad english, i'm not native and it's friday morning
     
    #2 krossaks, Mar 23, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
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  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    You can read my old math write-up in the old YJ forums here. The short version is the MA4 and MA5 are less generally useful than MA3, and MA3+ are significantly stronger than anything below that. People tend to overvalue the extra die in CC over the additional modifier bonus, but the modifier bonuses are way stronger in that range.
     
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  4. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    Dice roller doesn't agree with you. Modifier better against berserkers and other strong CC fighters. But 2 dices are much better in other situations.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think there's still a bug in the dice roller regarding MA1, MA3 and MA5 versus Berserking models - it applies the MA malus even if it shouldn't.

    Rule of thumb is MA3 versus competent and MA4 versus incompetent targets (you know... TAGs and such).
     
  6. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    It makes FtF instead of normal rolls.

    It's better to use MA4 against base infantry too(the most situations)
     
  7. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Sometimes your don't need to kill your CC target, especially if you're using one of your TO CC specialists. Say your opponent has a big nasty piece you're looking to tie up, like a tag. You engage it and fail to kill to kill with your initial attack. Instead of continuing to spend orders on removing it, weigh how valuable taking that order is from your opponent. While the model is engaged, it can't react to anything other than the model its engaged with, and while your model is engaged it gets an additional -6 mod to be hit. Coupled with TO, that's a -12 to units with no visors.

    If your opponent wants to free their piece, they've got to either spend orders on it dodging or CCing, and that just gives you more opportunities to kill it, especially if you're the superior fighter, or they've got to spend orders trying to shoot you, which also poses the risk of them hitting their own unit. Or they can try and run more models into CC, which, depending on what they've got available may still end up being in your favor.


    The point is, if you can afford to leave your model tied up in CC, your opponent may very well end up spending more orders to try and free their model than they'd lose if you just killed it.
     
  8. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    2 dice only starts getting better when the other person has CC below 18 and no CC skills, or at least that's what I remember from all the tests I did.
     
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  9. Foxbringer

    Foxbringer Well-Known Member
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    Maybe I didn't understand you correctly, but do you really use CCspecialists mostly killing other CCspecs? Then MA3 is better. But I prefer to shoot at them and only then activate my Saito and go for lieuteunant and specialist hunting or killing order pool where MA4 is much better.
     
  10. EDOCGenKip

    EDOCGenKip Member
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    I just put my opponents' heads down with the 5-man HI ball and its obscenely high stats; then, when their heads are down, root them out with CC, heh. When their heads are down, Saito gets a lotta free movement without having to waste orders throwing smoke; likewise with the 5-man powerball charging up the field, swords drawn, heh.
     
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  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Domaru EM CCW are hilarious. Even if the Domaru dies from Jerkilles' return swing due to Berserk, that trade is worth it (max of 39 points in exchange for minimum of 73). You still made a Jerkilles-shaped bird feeder. Against TAGs, ROFLMAO.

    Generally CC the shooty things and shoot the CC things. Do NOT engage assholes with NBW in CC, drop explosives on them from across the board.
     
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  12. Telcontar

    Telcontar Well-Known Member

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    And here I thought all I needed to know was "pointy end goes in the other guy"...
     
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  13. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    I like what I'm seeing so far, but to be honest I was hoping for tips more along the lines of "not using stealth during your first move order when standing around a corner so your opponent has to waste their ARO on something that doesn't kill you" or stuff like these...you know, the tricks that really help you make the most out of your close combat units.
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    That was due to a bug in the dice calculator. It's probably worth rerunning some of your tests.
     
  15. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    Only useful for yojimbo but if you poke the koala into view of your opponent with your first move, you can then move yojimbo into view with the second mov skill without him getting hit. Next order gives you 8 to close the remaining gap and ftf them in cc.
     
  16. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Another thing I've exploited in the past to help get models up the field (works for both CC and anything else you want to advance) is using remotes to tie up midfield models that might be a nuisance. The Chaiyi is my favorite for that, but depending on positioning yaozao can be used as well. Just ram one of these guys into CC with the model you to need block and they lose LoF to everything. Best case scenario you actually win the CC and the electric pulse goes off and you immobilize them. Worst case scenario, your remote takes a wound and goes unconscious but your opponent is still engaged! They can't cancel it until their active turn so no LoF for them during your turn.
     
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  17. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    That seems very counter-intuitive, and I certainly wouldn't play it that way. You may win games with that tactic, but you won't win any friends.
     
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  18. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    I thought that was faqed out.
     
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  19. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    You're implying it's an underhanded tactic, but all the reactive model needs to do is succeed at a dodge to negate it.

    In retrospect that would be the worst case scenario: Your opponent dodges out of the way and your order is wasted.
     
  20. sgthulka

    sgthulka Well-Known Member

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    I used to avoid using ninjas in CC because they were so expensive and they lose their TO bonus and they didn't do big damage. But now with the tactical bow/DA load out they are outrageously efficient.

    When using a camo token that doesn't have smoke, prone is your friend and extra orders are your friend. Instead of taking the direct closest line to the enemy trooper, find a spot where you can CC him and not take ARO's from other figures (by going prone and putting yourself between the trooper and other enemies). You will take AROs in the order that you touch, so it's often worth an extra order to go prone and move within a millimeter and then use a second order to touch. Usually your opponent won't discover when you're that close because (s)he is afraid of taking a free shot.

    Ninjas (but not Oniwaban) also have knives. Before you start spending orders on a CC attack run be sure and find out from your opponent exactly what your target is armed with. If the trooper has any direct template weapons (nanopulsers, flamethrowers, chain rifles) either stay away from them, or, if you can isolate them without additional AROs, spend extra orders to move into their rear arc and then attack with the knife. If they survive, now that they're already engaged, you can switch to the DA CCW.

    It's become more dangerous to remain in CC and pass to your opponent's after HSN3. A single coordinated order can move 4 chaff figures into base combat with you; that's 5 dice on even a crappy CC unit (when including the original figure). That's just the maximum number; I'm not even sure if 5 figures can touch a ninja's base all at once, but I'm just making the point, even 3 dice on a decent CC can lead to a dead ninja. So before you give up on a CC figure and "tie your enemy up" in CC combat, make sure you know where the MSV units are (if he can eliminate your TO camo bonus it's often worth it to fire into CC), where his sensor units are (triangulated fire will eliminate you in a flash), and how many orders it will take him to swarm you. Once you have that info you can make an informed decision.
     
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