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Can we address the elephant in the room ?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by eciu, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    The fact that K9 good doggo can triangulate Trench Hammer into people ?



    (it's not my finding, but our meta player)
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    What's the issue?
     
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  3. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    No issue, but my imagination breaking ;P

    It's extremaly funny to imagine, and not a thing which you think (at first moment) :P
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Ah, so you've not faced Chaksas using their Pistols with Triangulated Fire.
     
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  5. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    No.

    Only heard about regulars killing Sphinxes with combis ;P
     
  6. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    The range is still limited to 20cm, even with triangulated fire, so not that crazy

    It's just the effect of an antipode throwing his hammer using his smell/earing to target instead of eyes, ignoring DDO/TO/... effects
     
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  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Because obviously Doggo is a chinese/japan blind martial arts master ;P
     
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  8. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of other species have poor sight but good hearing and/or smell (cats for example). Imagining a dog targeting not using is sight is not out of my frame of reference
     
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  9. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    #9 Wolf, Oct 5, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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  10. leigen_zero

    leigen_zero Morat Pacifist

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    Going to go out on a limb and discuss this a moment, but can you triangulate fire with a trench hammer at all?

    RAW:
    Sensor: Triangulated Fire
    Allows the user to declare a BS Attack with one of his BS Weapons
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Sensor:_Triangulated_Fire

    Trench Hammer
    Close Combat weapon that loads DA Special Ammunition but can be used as a Throwing Weapon, so it has two different combat modes available.
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Trench-hammer

    Throwing Weapon
    Throwing Weapon. This weapon can make BS Attacks, but uses the PH Attribute in place of BS. When using this weapon, consider all rules and MODs that would affect the trooper's BS as affecting his PH Attribute instead.
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Traits


    A Trench hammer is a CCW, not a BS weapon, so cannot be used with triangulated fire which explicitly states that it must be a BS Weapon, and AFAIK there is nothing stated that a throwing weapon becomes a BS weapon (it can make BS attacks, but it doesn't make it a BS Weapon)
     
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  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Oh boy. What a mess.

    @ijw help please?
     
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  12. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    There is no definition of a BS Weapon that I can find. In the WIki it redirects to BS Attack. By that I would assume that a BS Weapon is a weapon capable of making a BS Attack.
     
  13. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    It's kinda like grenades getting fireteam bonuses
     
  14. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    And this is why gamers have the term 'Rules Lawyer'. Although much of this discussion could be avoided if gaming companies hired something known as a 'Techinical Writer'. Looks like we will have to rely on a 'Rules Judge' if one ever shows up.

    per the wicki
    What we call Sensor is the result of either high-sensitivity detection equipment or an impeccable sense of smell, with the end goal of being able to locate hidden enemies at short ranges. These detection systems can also aid in the precise triangulation of the target, resulting in more effective target acquisition. Sensor field assets are ideal trackers and watchdogs; a perimeter of these can make an area unassailable via surreptitiousness.

    So i guess the antipode is using Olfactolocation ( I totally made that word up )
     
  15. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Sadly we know there is a difference due to no linked bonus forward observe.
     
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Forward Observe isn't a weapon. So while it performs BS Attacks, it's not a Weapon that performs BS Attacks.

    Tenchhammers OTOH are Weapons that perform BS Attacks.

    To be a weapon it needs to appear in this list:
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Types_of_Weapons

    It's ugly, but that appears to be the intent.

    It's hashed out in this thread:
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/faq-on-fireteam-burst-bonus-with-skills-or-equipment.24393/
     
    #16 inane.imp, Oct 7, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  17. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    You can triangulate thrown weapons.
     
  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    But only if they're weapons. Thrown Weapons are not necessarily weapons; they're only weapons if they appear on the "Type of Weapons" table. This is an extrapolation of the fact that Technical Weapons are not weapons unless they appear in that table. ;)
     
  19. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I'm not going to go down a Flash Pulse rabbit hole right now. As far as I know, there are no BS-equivalent skills (or whatever you want to call it) that are thrown.
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Flash Pulses are a type of weapon. No rabbit hole there. ;)

    But you're correct: all current Thrown Weapons are also Weapons. I'm just pointing out that they're Weapons because they're a Type of Weapon rather than being a Weapon as a consequence of being a Thrown Weapon. Mainly because the absurdity of this sentence amuses me, and isn't immediately apparent so bears repeating.

    It would be possible to introduce a piece of equipment that is a Thrown Weapon but is not a BS Weapon.
     
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