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Beserk, I-khol and other special CC skills

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Ogid, May 27, 2019.

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  1. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    A very long thread about these topics just got closed, you can check it here

    It is quite long so revising it all is time consuming but important rulling about these is hidden there. As that thread got quite long and a lot of things were discussed, this is just to be 100% sure that this ruling is the intended officially, a short recap:
    • Berserk versus dodge, dodge even if successful cannot affect the CC roll so the defending model will be hit if the berserk pass its roll (confirmed by @ijw in the post nº 291), this is due the normal roll not being able to dodge a CC attack (the first bullet point of dodge states FtF roll is needed for that)
    • Berserk transforming the roll in normal rolls make the column "Oponent Mod" of every special ability chart inaplicable because that column needs a FtF roll to be applied (confirmed by @ijw in the post nº57)
    • I-Khol is the only exception to the above rule, that rulling is missing from the I-khol effect bullet points, but is settled by the I-Kohl example 2, however that example can't be generaliced to any other special CC (also confirmed by @ijw in the post nº57)

    I'm almost sure that I got it right but, could any official source confirm that? @ijw @HellLois @Koni
    Ty!
     
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  2. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    #2 Dragonstriker, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  3. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you are so sure about it but if i'm not mistaken this is a rules forum intended to discuss rules and to solve people's doubts, so I don't see the trolling in people actually discussing rules, doing a recap of a 15 pages long thread (so other players can access to that info easily) or asking for confirmation of official rulling in unclear rules.

    Also the rules discused in that thread aren't bullet proof exactly:
    • Berserk transform FtF rolls into normal rolls but it doesn't give further information about how to handle it
    • Special CC skills are worded in a similar way but I-khol may apply the "Oponent Mod" column to a normal roll thanks to an example even if nowhere in his effect bullet point explain it. This open doubts about the first point (because you have a normal roll applying mods reserved for FtF rolls) and also about if that example can be generalized to other speciall cc skills or not.
    • A successful FtF dodge let you avoid a CC attack so how Berserk handle the FtF conversion into normal rolls could be interpreted in several ways and there is also the precedent of direct template attacks (normal dodge avoiding attacks).
    I don't want to repeat it again, so if anyone is interested in that reasoning, you can read what i wrote in the posts nº 279, 288 and 290 of said thread.
     
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  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    And admittedly, my group was applying the Opponent MODs to Berserked (normal) rolls because we hadn't seen that Opponent MODs only apply to FtF rolls. Oops.

    But as we said several times over in the other thread, the exception in the Direct Template Weapon rules allows you to have some chance to avoid the damage. Otherwise, there would be NO way to avoid that damage under the rules.

    If Berserk was intended to work the same way, then there should have been either a bullet-point or an example showing that you could use Dodge to avoid a Berserked CC attack. There is no such exception, therefore the standing rule of 'must be a FtF roll to avoid damage' applies.

    Despite what some trolls are trying to say, actions are declared long before you figure out what type of roll they are according to the Order Expenditure Sequence. Berserk explicitly turns what would be FtF CC rolls into Normal CC rolls. Because the roll is normal, you cannot Dodge to avoid damage. Yes, if you successfully dodge in ARO you can move out of base-to-base, but you are still taking the Berserker's damage.
     
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