Berserk vs i-Kohl - Example contradicts rules

Why wouldn’t they? They succeeded at their unopposed, Normal roll, and the Active trooper would have to get into CC again.

 

That doesn't strike you as odd that using Berserk Attack on targets with PH12 can Dodge with a 60% chance to evade all damage? Higher as PH rises. Doesn't this give Berserk Attack a very limited use?

 

I mean, I think it's more likely that the person who wrote the example didn't understand that CC special skills only work on Face to Face rolls, and this error is being back-folded into the rules in a cargo cult-like fashion, but as long as it's clear it's fine.

 

They're normal rolls. So if the Dodge succeeds, the trooper gets to leave, but if the CC attack succeeds, they get hit, even if they succeeded at their Dodge.

 

Are you sure? The rules don't seem clear on that when both succeed. I'd assume the Dodging trooper takes no dmg.

 

That's what Dodge does as a normal roll.

 

Exactly this. Its not even a question.

Berserkers are dangerous

 

Since both are normal (unopposed) rolls, the attacker will hit and the defender will disengage. In general, berserk allows what would normally be contradictory outcomes to happen, such as both models dying to CC attacks or this example of a model falling unconscious outside of melee range from the model that killed it with a cc attack.

 

And almost never ever try ti engage a berserker

 

Why?

The attacking trooper hit.

If this was a FtF roll, you'd be correct, a successful Dodge means no damage. But this is a Normal Roll, neither roll affects the other. If the Berserker succeeds, you're hit, regardless of the success or failure of your own roll(s).

 

Do you have enough clout to maybe get this advanced to the FAQ document?

 

I can suggest it, but from memory this is only the second time it's ever come up on the forum, so it's going to fail the 'frequent' part of 'FAQ'.

 

That's fair enough, but it also wouldn't be the first infrequently asked question to make it into the document. I think it's proportional to i-Kohl usage.

 

Added to the unsolved question list with the following description (don't hesitate to correct it) :
Berserk vs Martial Art and I-Khol
Original topic : https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/berserk-vs-i-kohl-example-contradicts-rules.32034/

Situation : A Makhaul (Martial Art lvl 2, I-khol lvl 1) is fighting an highlander (Berserk) in CC. The Makhul declare the use of MA lvl 1 and I-khol lvl 1, the highlander declare the use of Berserk

What is the final modifier to the highlander CC roll

Answer :
1: +6, Opponents MODs for CC Special Skills explicitly apply to Face to Face Rolls. Nothing in either MA or I-Khol main rules text says otherwise.
2: +3, Opponents MODs for CC Special Skills explicitly apply to Face to Face Rolls. Nothing in MA main rules text says otherwise but I-khol example says it works on berserk. (mainstream understanding)
3: 0, Opponents MODs for CC Special Skills explicitly apply to Face to Face Rolls. I-khol example says it works on berserk. MA and I-khol rules are written in a similar way so should work the same way.

 

It's answer 2, as per the example.

 

I can see both normal attack rolls from each trooper killing the other just fine, because both attacks have ALL their effects applied. However, with Dodge, why are we choosing to ignore the part where the dodge avoids the damage? So it doesn't allow both contradictory outcomes to happen in this case.

It still doesn't seem clear to me. The Berserk Attack as a normal roll gets to apply all it's effects. The Dodge normal roll does not get to apply all it's effects. We're not applying both rules equally and I don't see where this is explained.

Do I need to start a new thread for this?

 

The effect tha allow dodge to evade the attacks only work if the dodge roll is face to face :
"Allows the user to make a Face to Face Roll to evade one or more simultaneous enemy Attacks."

 

If that was the case you couldn't disengage from a Berserk Attacking trooper.

Edit, it's very confusing to try and tell when an effect is actually a requirement for a skill. Without a FTF roll does that mean you can't Dodge in any shape or form?

 

It falls under the rules about

and

The same reason why the models can declare dodge ARO and move when the enemy does not attack them.

 

But how do you define a successful Dodge? By turning the FTF roll into a Normal roll, what requirement is the trooper now successfully passing? And what requirement would the trooper be passing that means they can't avoid dmg but they can move/disengage?