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Zoe and Pi-Well - Possibly a stupid question?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by pgmason, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    In vanilla same strategy with an Interventor khd backing them up seems pretty solid.
     
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  2. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    You mean you aren't running at least one Zero KHD anyway, or heckler?
     
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  3. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Really I mean more that I'm probably taking that instead of Zoe these days rather than in addition to her.

    She used to be enough on her own. So it just requires more investment now. It still could work though.
     
  4. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    but the problem is not the KHD, are the normal hackers beign not enough. If they worked as they should, KHD would be a necessity, just with the rules they have now, but with HD as..."supportive" as now, they are no real treat to the enemy, so the KHD go from a necessity to deal with them, to a overkill tool. That, and the preventive nerfs to nomads (really, a clockmaker hacker with fewer defense against hacking than a normal clockmaker, after loosing the ODD field and changing the rules to BTS in hacking?)
     
  5. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    It does work, you're probably taking Zeros and Hecklers anyway whether they be FO's or Jammers, may as well spend a few extra points for the protection and to press buttons (also being the only heckler being able to re enter marker state with an assault pistol has made many a mess). KHDs are there to protect your other hackers in the same way a sniper rifle and HMG protect and solve problems for your combi wielding specialists.

    Taking a standard HD, AHD, EVO, HI or TAG without the support of a KHD or two is a completely alien to me and of the few times where I will say you probably screwed up hard at list creation. The other thing to keep in mind is that if an enemy hacker attacks through your repeater at your non KHD it means a couple of things; 1, Its their active turn meaning that poor fool is about to get dog piled hard. 2. you have made the mistake of activating the HD while an enemy is in your hacking area and probably deserve what happens next. 3. both you an your opponent don't understand how hacking works and a model with a repeater has activated and the hacker in back just got ARO'd because reasons (I have seen this happen a couple of times then had to lecture the two on how this actually works).

    TLDR; if hackable targets are your Bombers and Transport aircraft KHDs are the Escort interceptors.


    This is almost entirely thanks to REDRUM which along with the other programs on my shit list can go get deleted from the game.
     
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  6. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Step One. Assement: Is your opponent playing Ariadna, or is your meta swarming with them?

    Step Two. If the answer to Step One is "yes," take Zoe and Pi-Well. Sensor things and then shoot them with MML2.
     
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  7. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Yep, it was different (and probably better for Zoe imho) before khds existed is all I'm saying.

    Now the real question is are you better off spending those 50 odd pts on stuff that just shoots them in the face or does other things than the hacking and utility this dynamic duo bring. Probably depends on a lot of things like mission etc, but I think the answer is more often yes than it was previously.
     
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Then brick the Blackjack for style points.


    Probably more Meta and play style dependant. All of these (Z&P and supporting hackers) cover a wide range of relevant things it is hard not to take them sometimes.

    But more generally speaking I'm of the opinion that if I'm not shooting a hackable target (If I shoot them at all) uncontested I have screwed up somewhere in how I played the turn. It's also often easier and less risky to bring hacking to bear on a target than a gun, and if I IMM-1 it first then I have less chance of losing my gunfighter if/when I choose to shoot it as opposed to leaving a repeater there and just keep throwing Oblivion or Icebreaker at it and laugh.

    It pretty much comes down to the following;
    Are you okay with expending a few more orders making a safer less efficient play that preserves your resources, or a more efficient riskier play that can lose you resources.

    And most of the time it is something I'm okay with, your preferences may lean towards the more direct approach.
     
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  9. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    That right there is one of the essential questions of Infinity which determines style of play (and whether your style of play matches the resources available to your army). Super low order lists will find one definitively easier and more rewarding than the other, for any given situation. Lists with more bodies and orders will generally be able to go either way and do okay.
     
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  10. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    Zoe and Pi-Well also do not cost any SWC, which in Bakunin Sectorial is great, since you are overpaying for SWC elsewhere. Its really not a bad combo when you consider how much they bring to specialized missions. I would agree, however, that it isn't worth taking in a kill mission, like Decapitation or Annihilation, but then again, you try not to take many specialists in those sorties anyway.
     
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  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The one specialist you -do- definitely need in Hunting Party for example is an Engineer, and Zoe efficiently also packs a basic hacker into that. And for basic kill missions, having an Engineer around is a really good idea for keeping your non-fleshy units in the game.

    Same goes for Decap, where she gets you two of your most basic important utility specialists into only one package of vulnerability.

    Pi-Well is extra, sure... but IMO his vulnerability is balanced by his utility, offensive power, and decent defense when in Spec Fire with MML2 on him.
     
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  12. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    I'm looking forward to seeing Zoe and Pi-well back once we have linkable tsyklons. I think that's going to be what gets Zoe back above water again, when lists start coming out with like a lunokhod and a tsyklon and a reaktion zond all in one group.
     
  13. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    If that happens, for sure. Linkable REMs in Bakunin would definately bring back some of Zoes shine.
     
  14. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    So I've been running Zoe & Pi-well in missions where it is heavily leaned towards objectives and the classifieds and they've paid me dividends. This said, I like to have my list supported with a couple of KHDs and/HD+s. May not be as effective against Nomads but it does give you a good array of specialists.

    Granted Nomads is not my home faction so take it possibly with a grain of salt.

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
     
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