In truth, the "standard" is 300pts games because that's the target value the rules are written around, and the size the testers work with most, if not all, of the time.
Glancing at List C and seeing the Zuyong logo raised and dashed my hopes (For a Zuyong Fireteam) quite expertly. Sure, overall there was a bit of working with Invincibles in these lists with the Guijia Squadrons, but it's still not a preview for IA (similar to how Blizzard-6 previews Svalarheima )back when early previews and rumors of the JSA pack and the schism came in. I'm not sure I like any of these. Like it's said, a few are so close to being good but just aren't with Duos that don't make much or weird core links.. I'm not a fan of the Guijia so I think List C might be the one I'm most tempted to use simply out of whim of wanting to field Zuyong and the Su-Jian, or List B for a buffed Dakini Multi-Sniper that I'm fond of in a lot my lists. Overall they just seem like they're trying to sell you the Guijia.
I was unaware that CB posted what the testers are working with. Can you tell me where I can find that article? It sounds very interesting, and I'd like to read it.
I disagree. 300 points is the gold standard and only some of the Ariadnan sectorials are properly screwed by it. Also, I count the 20's to be Yu Jing's absolutely worst bracket, a point range where we've only got gimmicks. Technically, ITS supports any format from 25pts and up to several thousand. I'm interpreting things here, not representing CB. My only problem with Limited Insertion is that *everyone else* is also playing strong 10-man lists. I like beating larger lists with better troops. It absolutely ups the ante and makes it harder to design lists for me because of stronger opposition. The biggest benefit of it, however, is so many fewer Muttas!
This is an ISS "side project". All the standard ISS Fireteam composition still applies. Your Warcor should be more present in the Warcor SubSection. We already discussed it over there.
If by gimmicks you mean Rui Shi, Lu Duans, Garudas, Tiger Soldiers, Kanren, and Guilangs. Uh... sure. To quote one of the locals when asked if he wanted to go to a LI tournament being hosted "2 days of pain train link teams sounds like 40k" 10v10 is pretty brain dead gameplay and puts an unhealthy skew on who gets first turn and shoots up models. It's ok if you get it once in a while, but an entire event based around it is a joke.
No it doesn't. I realize that 40K is the gold standard around here whenever people want to run down some aspect of N3 they dislike, but a 5-man Brigada link has precisely nothing in common with a squad of 20 Dark Angels dumping buckets of D6s at you and then re-rolling half of them. Having to do more with less orders is not brain-dead, it just forces you to reexamine your priorities. Just because you don't like something doesn't ipso facto make it stupid. LI is, at its core, a means of discouraging spammy lists full of Mutts, Makauls, etc., and encouraging the use of TAGs and other high-value units that might otherwise be passed over in the eternal pursuit of squeezing in a couple of extra orders. If you can't figure out a way to make that interesting, that's on you, not CB.
What it has to do with 40k is it places an inordinate skew on the value of going first, much like 40k. Current win rates in US events for going first is upwards of 70%. While LI is not as bad it places a much bigger value on simply going first and successfully inflicting a crippling amount of damage to your opponent's order pool by engaging him first that he can't get back into the game whilst being immune to the traditional counter of spending a command token to lower the damage inflicted on the first turn. That's brain dead gameplay.
No, @Mahtamori is right, it's just net listing. Some people here are so obsessed with min/maxing everything they tend to forget that an option with slightly lower chance of success is still a viable one, and that not all metas are the same. It's sad, especially in a game like infinity where tactical decisions are so much more important than list building... Anyway, kinda like those list. Lots of interesting stuff for 10 orders ISS, a format the sectorial quite struggle with due to the overall lack of to-hit modifiers and super-heavy-armored stuff: A: Even if there's no engineer to fix the TAG, there is enough stuff to get the job done in the end so it's fine. Really like the list dynamic. The weibing/rui-shi duo looks like a discount Hsien haris, can't wait to try it out! B: Probably my least favorite, don't really dig the fireteam options (though a linked sophotect is interesting). Mostly annoyed by the fact that with only 2 more points, both the CG and kanren BS could be forward obs. Really, it's infuriating! C: Looks nice, 2 duos with His and 1 solo CQB monster to cram in your opponent's throat. D: Oh boy here you go! Hsien HMG in a core link with wu-mings and Crane, supported by smoke launcher and CoC in haris? I'm drooling on my keyboard, it's amazing! Probably the first one i'll test. Fun fact: every single model in the pain train has a tactical rock! E: Just like the B one, not really a fan but there's more potential and i can't help but feel like i'm missing something when looking at the list...
Read the thread and understand why you're wrong. You can build a list that isn't spamming Kuang Shi and make it a competitive alternative, but these CBLs aren't that. They're badly constructed junk that eschews necessary items like support pieces and ARO options.
Aside from the 40's which is basically only Shang-Ji, it is Yu Jing's weakest segment, resulting in only a few low-AVA options I'd characterize as good with Tigers high AVA, obviously, being a bit of a trap. (And the lower teens, which isn't really enough points to get much of anything done in any faction). 1. Not my experience. 2. My experience, too. Expanding on 1, one of the problems with how CB designs new sectorials is that they take increasingly dilute that part of Yu Jing's faction identity by giving increasingly well-optimized HI fireteams to more factions*. I think this is hurting the game and I think it is hurting other play styles (such as TAGs) that should also see the light of day in those tournaments. This is not something that's limited to Limited Insertion, however, but a problem I'm finding with lists in general since pain trains isn't going to limit you to 10-man lists for an increasing amount of sectorials. Expanding on 2, interestingly enough I find Limited Insertion tends to benefit the starting player about as much as normal games tend to favour the player going second. It's not only limited to that Command Token use, but also that you can afford to put models on ARO in non-Limited format so that having the final say in the button-pushing game becomes stronger. Both of these need to be addressed, probably by trying to design missions to be less about "who pressed the button last" and possibly to design different missions for Limited Insertion. * Incidentally, if Fireteam rules didn't suppress Frenzy**, most of these fireteams wouldn't be quite as well-optimized. ** And if Fury kicked in at the end of the order where the unit caused damage.
I really like 10 order lists. They're not standard and feel more elite. If you manage to win against a 16 order list with only 10 models you know you've done something right. It's harder, but it's fun and feels good. Nothing brain dead about it. Gesendet von meinem SM-J500FN mit Tapatalk
I find the 70+ weaker because it's just the Guijia, and the 10-20pt area also considerably weak as it largely consists of Zhanshi who can't be fireteams, and Celestial Guard which you take exactly 1 profile for and it's the Kuang Shi dude. Outside of Zhanying which I find in a bad spot I think the 20-35pt area is pretty well off for YJ.
They can seem sub-optimized, but those CBL lists have STRONG attack vectors. TAG, Su-Jian, MonsterTeam and so on. And playing in defense has never been inside ISS basket, you know? Where a 14+ Order list packs a small amount of small models and a bunch of "fillers" (may they be buttonpusher, cheerleader or interdition pieces), those CBL lists packs A LOT of options. Damn, even the couple od Kanren can wreak havoc. You see, you can always pose as THE OTHER ONE and bait the enemies that want to gun down your Specialists. If you stop to value only the guns/armour/whateveryouvalue of a model, you'll see where these list ARE strong. Not fully optimal, yes. But really solid. The fault is in the eye of the observer.
Does most of the list being unoptimised filler matter when they are filler to a BS 17 B5 HMG shooting through smoke? Because i would say no.
Uh, sure it has. They have access to 3 TR bots. The problem those lists have is they don't have the proper ARO or support options to back them up. List D's oh so fearsome HI fireteam falls flat on its face against a decent repeater set up because whoever built the list decided that KHD hacking counter measures were not required. The argument has nothing to do with raw guns or stats, it has everything to do with synergy between the models. It's not there for any of the lists they're full of gaping holes that prevent them from functioning effectively because they're too many things crammed together at once instead of taking 1 good idea like the new Duos and building a good list around them that supports them and helps them do work.
My buddy who still plays was quoting some podcast to me. However quick googling http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/07/40k-8th-may-have-an-alpha-strike-problem.html The issue is real and there. They're recently updating the tournament system rules to try and lower the impact of alpha striking on turn one by limiting deep strike options.
