This is the "enforcers" division I guess? ISS is certainly ruthless if nothing else. Remember you can opt to use the regular fireteams, if you like, on CBL.
That's a fault of all CBLs, though. Oh, yeah, that Celestial Guard has a Multi Sniper at 0,5SWC. I missed it because I looked at points and went "oh, there's the hacker" Meh. That's how I feel about Yu Jing in general. That LT will be a bit harder to take down and will have a Sophotect close by. Regarding KHDs, most often YJ can't really set up sufficient hacking net for them to do their thing in our meta, I regularly use my Ninjas for slicing or button pushing rather than brain-melting. Honestly, this attitude right here is why I'm getting so damned fed up with Yu Jing forums some times. It's all so... tunnel vision and net listing at this point. Yeah, agreed on this, both Sophotect and fluff. I skipped the fluff in pure unconscious self-preservation :p
CBL are not intended to be "noob-friendly". On my side, i really like them. It is finally a VERY GOOD excuse to come back to the ISS side after a couple of months where i played exclusively JSA. I even intend to bring those list to a mini-league we are planning on the Uprising/Treason thread
Not talking about mechanics, but the amount of stuff you have to buy to use 1-2 models from there, aside from the ISS Starter. On the bright side, the Lu Duan can proxy the baggage bot, and the Wu Ming can proxy the Terracottas. Leaving the lone Bao, but I'm sure there will be something. Like a Rayden.
Given that this division is probably PsychoCrane and friends I'm surprised you don't get to bring a Warcor along to broadcast him killing japanese children or whatever other poorly written pieces of fluff based atrocities they're up to.
This has nothing to do with net listing, it has everything to do with the lists are objectively poorly constructed. There are a couple of competitive good ideas in these lists like the Su-Jian/Rui Shi duos that allow our traditional attack pieces to tag specialists along and provide a strong, alternative option to MOAR KUANG SHI. However, because the lists are constructed by a fluff oriented, incompetent player these good ideas are unfortunately competely weighed down by the lists not actually being constructed to properly support and allow these ideas to shine effectively, hence being a gigantic let down and you're better off spamming Kuang Shi as usual. I don't like this being the case, but it is what it is.
Lets leave the fluff discussion to the other thread, this is about the new lists. What regular fire teams are you referring to? There aren't any of the regular, 5 man fire teams in ANY of the CB lists...
Okay, let's play a game of "how would you make minor adjustments to improve the lists?" (As a minor note, I think that Ninjas are not available due to fluff reasons of being engaged in shadow wars against JSA Ninjas)
List C has a lone Crane. @psychoticstorm is pointing out that you can choose to form a normal link team with 3xCG+1xCrane and let the Bao+Pheasant act alone
The standard Fireteam Option for ISS Imperial Service Fireteam Units Fireteams Unit Fireteams CELESTIAL GUARD Core, Core*1, Core*4 BÀO TROOPS, Judicial Watch Unit Core*2, Haris*1 ZHÀNYĪNG Imperial Agents Haris, Haris*2, Core*3 IMPERIAL AGENTS, Pheasant Rank (Yě Jī) Haris, Duo, Core*2, Haris*1 IMPERIAL AGENTS, Crane Rank (Xiān He) Core*1 WÚ MÍNG (Those Without Name) Core, Duo, Core*3 “HSIEN” Warriors Haris*2 SÙ-JIÀN Immediate Action Unit Duo KUANG SHI Core*4 Gui Feng XI ZHUANG Special*1 Special Fireteams: Core Core*1 - up to 3 Imperial Agent Crane Rank + Celestial Guards. Core*2 - 1 Imperial Agent Pheasant Rank + up to 4 Bào Troops. Core*3 - 1 Zhànyīng Imperial Agent + up to 4 Wú Míng. Core*4 - 1 Celestial Guard with Kuang Shi Control Device + up to 4 Kuang Shi. Special Fireteams: Haris Haris*1 - 1 Imperial Agent Pheasant Rank + up to 2 Bào Troops, OR 2 Imperial Agent Pheasant Rank + 1 Bào Troop. Haris*2 - 1 Hsien Warrior + up to 2 Zhànyīng Imperial Agents. Special Special*1 - Gui Feng Xi Zhuang counts as a Celestial Guard for Fireteam composition.
I actually like and would play like maybe 2 or 3 of these. Not the one with the Dakini MSR, but the other ones look OK. I'm obviously only talking about Limited Insertion Tournaments here, but trolling people with a B5, BS17 Hsien through smoke is so much overkill it is funny.
As I've already pointed out, stop constraining CBLs to limited insertion, that's just a stupid idea to being with. Stop eschewing traditional supportive pieces just to satisfy your hard on for limited insertion and just build a good list instead of filling it with random shit for points. Let's take list C as that was arguably the closest to truly being a competitive alternative. You drop the Zuyongs, the Bao. They're all irrelevant filler garbage. We get some MSV2 from a Rui Shi, some ARO options in the form of flash pulses and TR bots and Mad Traps. And we get some Smoke to improve the Crane link and synergise with MSV2, and just give us options to avoid enemies instead of fighting them. We preserve the core idea of the CBL which is cool new Duo to play with, but we don't hamstring it with a shitty amount of models and no proper support or ARO tech. Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT Lieutenant (Sensor, X Visor) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 3 1 WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Chain of Command, X Visor) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, MadTraps / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 36) CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5 SWC | 300 Points There's some changes you can make here based on flavour or meta, like dropping the Pheasant for KHDs of some type. The other thing you might do is move the Crane 3 man core link into group 2 and have them operate independently instead of the filler options. Personally I like spawning Mad Traps though, they can really piss people off and make them think twice about ramboing stuff around. The other thing I'd do to CBLs as a blanket rule would be to just dictate the models taken, and allow the players to organise their combat groups as they see fit.
I'd say that CBL means closed battle list... so the Fireteams are fixed aswell. Would have little sense to not have that mentioned anywhere, but heck, it's CB. If we talk about in & out, adding sophotect to all lists without one (replacing the engineer) is a must, I'd say. Then again, I like to play with a medic &/or engineer on the list...
thanks, I thought he was referring to the comment about the 4 man fire team, but you are correct that lets you save your CoC instead of putting it in the middle of the table. That list would be so much better if they had a fourth CG with the smoke launcher since you could switch your link between the crane or the pheasent+bao based on the mission or opponent. I guess they needed to show the CatBot duo and Terracotta Soldier duo as well as the bao+cg+pheasant link. Apparently there are 11 (eleven!) new links across this CB list. Holy crap!
The whole document is listed as ISS: YUANDUN, why should you not be able to field a "standard" ISS Fireteam? Those listed are the SPECIAL ones restricted to that particular CBL.
And to answer my own question on game: A: CG Sniper -> CG hacker B: Pheasant Red Fury -> MadTrap, CG Hacker -> CG LGL (SWC discount), Kanren BSG -> Husong. C: Crane Haris (Zuyong) D: This one is not perfect, but it does enough interesting things that having a weakness to hackers is the correct kind of interesting. E: The only list without smoke and with a 4-man Core. Zhanying ML -> Zhanying HMG, Kanren FO -> Bao Sniper, Celestial Guard Spitfire -> KSCD
'Cause the previous CBL was Svalarheima, and had no fallback Fireteams to draw from. 'Cause it says "CLOSED battle lists" on the title. 'Cause it includes units not present on ISS, and units that do not exist outside the CBL (that baggage with HEAVY PISTOL and FLASH PULSE). And I asked my Warcor and his answer was "in theory you cannot". So...
Oh, and I am certain that CB wants these lists to be viable for all ITS formats, which means limited to 10 (for limited insertion). Realistically, that'd mean that if they're breaking the 10-model limit they'd need to make either F, G, H lists as well or have at most 1 single list above 10 models to preserve options.
But isn't ITS 200-400 points? Most limited insertion tourneys are run at 200 points to prevent screwing over Haq and Ariadna (everyone has interesting choices at 20 points/model instead of 30 points/model)
Limited insertion is a joke format anyway with poor balancing between factions, getting hung up over it is a waste of time. You might as well argue they need to make lists for 400pt events.
