Yu Jing is a hot mess

Maybe, I'm not convinced. But, in any case, ownership of the means of production by elites is incompatible with socialism.

 

Lets go back to talking about Lu Bu recreation.

He should clearly be a 2 W HI on a bike. Impetuous for that points discount to make up for Mimetism (-6). Clearly should get CC 23, MA lvl 5, Berserk, and NBW.

 

I think, Lu Bu isn’t worthy recreation for Yu Jing.

Guan Yu! Legendary general. Honorable one!
Lu Bu is more like kum bandit actually.

Special thoughts about bike!
Guan Yu (I told you, why him) on a bike. Good? Good.
But we talk about White Banner, then it should be bike for snow terrain.
Or something like bike.

 

A quick scan through Wikipedia seems to indicate that it would be possible, but would need very good community representation in government, a ridiculously efficient bureacracy and almost no corruption to be effective in practice.

On topic of visual themes, I think including Romance of the Three Kingdoms characters would be a thematic disaster as they are too heavily divorced from both Yu Jing and Infinity as a whole. Taking elements from their legends as inspiration for other units would be perfect though; an exaggerated Dynasty Warriors Guan Yu would be going too far, but a burly Shaolin with a big beard and a guan dao would be both recognisably asian and striking on the tabletop without breaking from Infinity's animesque aesthetic.

 

Ok, that’s true.
It needs more detailed view. So?
May be it should be not a recreations of heroes of just correct units.
Jujak opens door for Korean thematic, Blue Wolf for Mongolian.
Earlier good thoughts already were told.

 

No, it's literally against the definition of what socialism is. Sure, there's plenty of places that have called themselves socialist who have the means of production controlled by elites, but there's this country called the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and, well... sometimes it's not what's on the outside of the tin, let's say.

Yu Jing itself is a weird constitutional monarchy where instead of taking executive power, the monarch has taken judicial power and allows the Party to choose an executive (or the party allows the monarch, whichever).

 

This. I don't understand how we get so many nobodies as special characters while one of the greatest sources of historical/mythical references for Chinese pop culture goes untouched. I can only figure CB doesn't really care/know anything about eastern culture beyond the samurai and anime tropes. At least we get Jing Ke I guess.

 

Imagine unironically being the meme I just posted earlier.

Pol Pot, Mugabe, Castro, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jung Ill, Maduro were all just ‘fashist’ gaise!

*inserts real communism haven’t been tried before meme*

I have yet to understand why an ideology that is responsible for +110 million deaths isn’t being condemned to the same degree as the one sporting the swastika, it’s quite disgusting to be honest.

 

As best I can tell, it is condemned to the same degree, you may just not see it in your area. Politics is a wide field with nearly all positions being practiced somewhere in the world, and feelings about it are strong. I recommend sticking to the forum rules on this and keep the discussion academic, I'd hate to lose this thread which has so far featured some of the most interesting lore and art discussions in a while.

 

Removed because it doesn't do anything for the thread

 

Can we go back to how White Banner was designed by an asshole, Gutier can't write fluff for shit, and the Zanshi SWC box is the biggest scam ever?

Because this realtalk shit is gonna end with someone pinging Psycothic Storm and him giving us some vague warning or something.

 

Nah, think thread's gonna be locked soon as he finds it in him to read these forums with how far it's gone.

 

Imagine being so manipulated, uninformed and ignorant to just bark out literal fash defensive talking points when a make-believe political system from a metal doll game gets called 'fascist'. Wow.

 

This is the variant of the "EdUcAtE yOuRsElF" argurment.
I was tired of listening to wikipedia educated liberals using this sentence so I took their advice to heart and read 'The Origins of Totalitarianism' and 'Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil' (both by Hannah Arendt).
Then I read 'The Myth of the Twentieth Century' by Alfred Rosenberg (basically the pope of Nazi ideology and the architect of Nazi mythology), 'Mein Kampf' by Hitler (hillariously bad by the way).
Next up was 'The Anatomy of Fascism' by Paxton and the 'Vampire Economy: Doing Business Under Fascism' by Günter Reimann and of course 'Das Kapital' by Karl Marx.

This cannot be recommended to do however, because once you actually "educate" yourself on the subject you get brain aneurysms by reading post like these, especially when they try to actually pretend or entertain the idea that they actually have a basic understanding of the subject.

Also, "Authoritarism" is not an ideology, that's the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life.
That would encompas almost every civilization and ideology from the birth of the man kind to present day.

Again, this makes my brain hurt.
Real communism haven't been achieved, they have been attempted to be implemented for over a 100 years now and have failed miserably because humans needs to change species in order for it work.
That's what Hecaton mistakenly believes when he says:

What's going on here is not a subversion of communism, it's actually the road to communisn, via a Marxist-Leninist strain, where you have a interim super state that ensures equality and until perfect equality of the collective have been achieved, then you abolish the prisons, state and any forms of hierarchy as all of those things are obsolete in a perfect commune.

Aha... So you're doing the Bernie Sanders trope of actually assuming that because it's called "social democray", it has anything to do with socialism (which is hillarious when you say people are dumb for saying nazis are socialist because it's in their name).
Anyways, no. Social democracies are hyper competitve capitalist countries with a large welfare state (and lower taxes for large companies and fewer regulations than the US).
I'm from Denmark, let me speak from our behalf that we are all tired of listenting to foreigners mistaken us for socialists.

And this part is just straight up embarrassing.
Every single failed socialist state are indeed being mocked and condemned, but if you actually read why I LITERALLY wrote, I wrote AN IDEOLOGY.
Notice how that doesn't actually mention any of those countries you just mentioned.

No, socialism/communism as ideologies are not condemned in any way shape or form to the same degree as national socialism. To think otherwise is an abject rejection of manifest observable reality.

 

For triple times, going back to WB theme;

Lets say ISS' theme is an law enforcement with pitch black heart and considered necessary, with some noir classic Asian movies.

IA's theme would be the rigid terracotta soldiers' line with high-end command and control factor.

WB seems.. some kind of deception, guerrilla and ambush due to their iconic unit of Daofei and Guilang. Seems nice, a bit like CA's triangle structure, but WB seems a bit out as many YJ guys pointed it out.

Adding Zhencha and/or giving out some sect unique profiles could do some wonders, and I really want to see Ye Maos getting some treatment like it. WB exclusively.

 

I don't think another 30+ points unit is what WB needs.

AVA 6 (or god forbid, AVA Total) Zanshis would help a bunch, as would better fireteams.

It has plenty of nice toys, it just needs to have an easier time fitting them in the list and giving them enough orders to work with.

 

I live in France, a socialist/corporate-capitalist hybrid country. It's great. I moved here from the US because healthcare and education in the US are unaffordable, homelessness is rampant, and the people are massively ignorant (creationists and flat-earthers all over the place).

Socialists are definitely the good guys in Europe. I don't know where you live, but if you have affordable medical care, thank a socialist.

Fortunately socialism (mild redistribution of the revenue from capital to basic infrastructure and human health needs) is totally compatible with allowing free enterprise in the parts of the market that cover highly-elastic needs (entertainment, widgets, cars, etc.).

France manages the places where those things overlap (telecoms, defense) by letting the megacorporations do their thing, but the government has a big share of their ownership (not even a controlling share, but a big voting share like 20-30%). The state gains some of the benefits of corporate performance (making up for lower taxation on a lot of these firms), bu more importantly they help keep the wellbeing of the people in the corporation's decision-making.

For healthcare, we have public insurance and cost controls, but even the public insurance is privately managed (by companies that compete to do it cheaply, and which take a small and very-tightly-capped fee to manage it).

In the US I worked in healthcare. Costs for most surgical supplies were about 4-10 times what they are in France or anywhere else, due to lack of regulation and collusion among the few marketplace competitors. Private basic healthcare insurance inflates the cost of basic care and restricts access with no actual improvement to delivery or quality of care vs. public basic healthcare insurance. If you break your leg and have to be brought in an ambulance and then hospitalized for a couple days, the hospital bill is probably about $80,000 or more. Cancer care is often in the millions. Insurance -might- cover 80-90% of that if you have good insurance, which is tied to your job (who will then be incentivized to get rid of you because you are expensive).

Yeah, socialism works, when it is applied to the right parts of the economy. Rampant free-market capitalism does NOT work when applied to healthcare, education, or any other highly-inelastic good. It's great for stuff like auto manufacturing. In finance, you need a balance of both (the Germans are the only ones on earth who do that well, that I have found so far).

I know at least one of you clowns hating on socialism on these forums is from a Nordic country. Let's trade passports. You can have my old US healthcare plan too. Have fun, and buy a gun with your first paycheck, you're probably going to need it.

 

Literally. No.

It's taxpayer funded via a capitalist state that taxes profit.
Healthcare is only socialism if you unironically believe that tax is socialism.

This is exactly what I meant @Benkei

 

Literally yes: Modern, practicable socialism includes the use of tax on capital to fund social wellbeing and infrastructure.. Taxation is not inherently socialist, but the application of tax revenue to social welfare programs is.

(There are plenty of insanely free-market-leaning countries that do collect taxes but put them to as little social-welfare use as they can get away with (the US, and increasingly the UK, watch as they sell off the NHS this next decade). In the US, tax is mostly used for "defense" and civic infrastructure, including massive corporate subsidies and tax breaks. Healthcare is only paid for by the government in the case of the indigent and elderly. It is a far-right system that has left millions to die in the streets. There are tents all over my former city of Seattle, the home of four-five billionaires including the world's richest man.)

Modern socialism does include -some- ownership of the means of production in core industries by the State, but in reality you need some private ownership mixed in there too. Thus, France owning 20% of Airbus, Orange telecom, etc. etc.

The 19th-century definition of socialism as only ownership of the means of production by the State is ancient. Modern socialism, where it works, is a hybrid approach.

Modern socialism: Use of taxation revenues for social welfare, AND a strong but rarely absolute degree of control over corporate behavior. Neither element alone makes a government socialist.

Also, I would very much love to trade passports with you @Zewrath. You can have my US one at a discount. Which socialist country (taking a portion of the revenues from oil via direct ownership of the company I'm guessing) are you from again?

Would you like to have my student debt too? It's from a capitalist paradise, unsullied by the socialism that funded your own education!

EDIT: Wow, I thought Sweden did the corporate-socialist hybrid ownership thing like France. Turns out Sweden is full-on state owned for a lot of big the bigger players in several industries (mining, aerospace, pharmaceuticals, education, liquor, gambling). So the proceeds of these companies go straight into the public coffers, instead of indirectly via taxation or dividends like they do in France. That is -way- farther to the left than I thought Sweden was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_enterprises_of_Sweden

My offer for the Nordic-countries passport trade is now increased to one US passport, my US healthcare insurance (thanks Obama), my student debt, AND my small gun collection back there.