Yu Jing in N4

Tema en 'Yu Jing' iniciado por psychoticstorm, 6 Ago 2019.

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  1. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Ok, I know this isn't my house, but I want to chat with you guys about something. Let's start by looking at the simplest line infantry profiles:

    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    When we compare these two profiles we see that there is a simple exchange happening, the cost of going from BS 11 to BS 12 is the same cost as going from WIP 12 to WIP 13. This has a different impact on different profiles, but generally speaking we agree that it balances out overall and an Alguacile is worth the same as a Fusilier.

    Now, let's consider the more complicated:

    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

    There are several "push" and "pull" factors here. We're closest to the base of the Alguacile, but we've picked up a PH while dropping from a Combi Rifle to a Rifle. We could argue about the costing of Rifles in some circumstances, but here (probably because PH is costed high) the impact ends up being pretty well balanced and we end up with a trooper who "feels" about right in terms of their value vs their cost coming in slightly cheaper than the base.

    Ok, you still with me? If so let's go to the most complex example before we circle around to my point:

    GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    This one also has several "push and pull" factors in play. We've ended up at a higher cost this time, but picking up WIP up to 14 and the Light Shotgun together ends up being well worth the trade. Now this particular setup is much better for some profiles (gosh but the Specialists are good) but worse in others (their heavy weapons kinda suck for the cost) but that's the nature of the tradeoff for a more specialised stat. Overall I don't think many people are arguing that there's much wrong with the costing here.

    Right, I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this:

    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

    Here we have the Zhanshi. It's just one point more... not such a big deal? Well, I don't agree with that perspective. We could have looked at a bunch of other line infantry, but I think the overall perspective is clear by this stage, generally speaking their cost is pretty well balanced. And, sure, 1 point isn't that much. But it IS a 10% cost increase, and it starts a trend across the Yu Jing range which becomes increasingly problematic when we consider other profiles which are paying for CC which isn't useful.

    Now, I don't agree with those who might argue that the Zhanshi should simply drop in cost. That doesn't make them stand out as a profile to me. But I've had enough experience with "middling" CC units (think something in the 17-18 range) to know that it starts to make a difference against the "monsters". Enough that those "monsters" will stall more often than not after a couple of attacks. So that's my ptich. I don't think the Zhanshi should change in cost, but I think it should be picking up more CC for that point. And I think that other units paying for CC should ALSO be picking up about 3 CC per point, which would either shift the CC of some units up OR drop their cost by a couple of points.

    Personally, I'd lean into higher CC across the board, make it a REAL faction distinction.

    That's one of the key changes I'd like to see for N4 in Yu Jing.
     
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  2. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    You don't need an AHD to gimp a Liu Xing. Your standard backline support hacker with orderbots will do a plenty fine job of locking our boy down.
     
  3. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    We have no information as to whether Cuervo has been resurrected or not, anyone with a Cube (and even those without in some cases) could have been resurrected a dozen times over and unless the unit description explicitly says either way we just don't know.
     
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  4. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Ah yes, Gotcha, the absolute bane of any unit, unbeatable 13 damage resettable state applied without any mods
    using that logic garuda users must be complete morons for using a hackable drop trooper... and finding plenty space in the repeater net even coming from the side nearly every game
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Everyone else who's been resurrected into an NWI lhost either has a Cube 2.0 or explicitly has their cube damaged or tampered with in their fluff.
     
  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    OK, I'm going to need a source for that claim.
     
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  7. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Also everyone always covers their entire DZ in repeaters, even Ariadna and Tohaa! Also you must drop in right at the start of turn one without first clearing a gap :joy::joy::joy:
     
  8. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Actually that's not true.

    They end up locked into the "Hack Transport Aircraft" ARO and end up being the MOST vulnerable to "Explode Lvl X".

    Well... unless they are in a Fireteam (but that's a whole 'nother ball game).
     
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  9. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    The entire point is that it forces you to waste orders resetting. It doesn't have to be unbeatable, it just has to stop you from getting as far as you need to.

    The Garuda suffers from a similar weakness, but with mimetism making him a better gunfighter and his lower physique, he's better off coming from the side with a spitfire, where enemy defensive networks aren't as strong anyway. He's also a significantly cheaper profile.

    And I'm not talking about the moment you come down (Hack Transport Aircraft lock and all), I'm talking about once you start trying to mill about.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think that's still very much in question.

    Regardless, being in a fireteam doesn't help you, because you can't delay an ARO against an Entire Order with Sixth Sense.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Infinity Army. The confirmed people who are recreations/resurrected who don't have the cube 2.0 are Al-Djabel (working on old technology), and Wallace (damaged cube) and Avicenna (link to ALEPH intentionally disrupted).

    Dart has been resurrected and has the Cube 2.0.
     
  12. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    What about Valkyrie and Hannibal? As former Aristos they've died and been resurrected multiple times.

    Wallace and Avicenna have cube 2.0 because they're recreations created by Aleph, not because they've been resurrected.
     
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  13. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Protector of the Search for Knowledge

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    Also Rauol Specter as well. Lhosts have different levels and capabilities.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Have they? The fluff for the Aristeia game mentions "nanotherapy" not "resurrection."
     
  15. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Depends how severe the wound is, take a shotgun blast point blank to the cranium and they've little choice but to plug your cube into a new body.
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Arslan too, he's definitely a "resurrection".
     
    #156 colbrook, 14 Ago 2019
    Última edición: 14 Ago 2019
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  17. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Dart’s a Posthuman.
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    In a certain sense, sure.
     
  19. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Well-Known Member

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  20. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, pretty much any fluff I've ever seen for Dart said she was a posthuman. Of course, I don't follow Aristea, so she may have not been then.
     
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